On Monday, February 24, 2014, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Stathis, > > First thanks for answering my questions that Jesse refused to answer. > > A few more questions if I may. > > 1. Are you a believer in a block universe, or are you just presenting the > argument for it? The following questions assume belief. > Agnostic. > 2. You don't believe time flows, that everything in the block universe is > completely static. Is that correct? > It feels like time flows but if I think about it I don't understand what that really means. I could say that it's just an obvious, basic fact that time flows or I could say that the idea of time actually flowing is conceptually impossible. > 3. So if we can prove that time does flow would that be sufficient to > disprove a block universe? > Yes, though not its impossibility. > 4. Do you believe that the appearance of time flowing, which we all have, > is somehow a static perspective from some present moment along your > historical worldline? > If we live in a block universe, yes. > 5. Do you believe that the appearance of time flowing is due to a single > static perspective from a single fixed moment along your historical > worldline, or the transition of static perspectives similar to a sequence > of movie frames? > Even if time does flow it's due to a single static perspective, since the before and after moments aren't there. > 6. In other words, does anything actually move in your block universe, or > not? > If what we think of as movement is frames in a block universe then of course there is actual movement. > 7. If not, how can a completely static perspective generate the illusion > of movement through time? I claim it cannot. It can generate a freeze from > perspective only, not the illusion of movement. > Zeno discussed the impossibility of movement 2500 years ago and he didn't assume either a block universe or quantised time. > 8. Since a block universe contains every detail of every event in the > entire history of the universe from beginning to end, and those details > demonstrate immensely complex and consistent causal sequences, how could > they have all been created at the same time Acausally? What physical > mechanism could possibly work out all causal sequences without doing it > temporally? > It's begging the question by assuming flowing time is coherent, correct and the only way to account for stuff happening. In a block universe the causal sequence exists without explicit ordering, as the natural numbers form a sequence without being put in order one by one on a number line. > 9. Do you agree that this creation event (of the entire universe from > beginning to end) would have been the most enormously improbably creation > ever imaginable, a creation event that makes the Biblical creation event > seem reasonable by comparison? > No more than a non block universe creation. > 10. If you think there was no creation event, that the block universe > always existed, do you agree that the assumption that the whole universe > from beginning to end is the most UNparsimonius assumption possible and > thus is the most least likely assumption based on Occam's Principle? > No, there is less to explain if everything that can exist does exist than if only a subset of the possible exists; for why that subset? > Thanks, > Edgar > > > > On Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:37:31 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Sunday, February 23, 2014, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Jesse, > > 1. Do you agree you are actually a particular age right now today as you > read this? > > > Not Jesse, but yes. > > 2. Do you agree that I am actually a particular age right now today as I > write this, whether or not you know what that is? > > > Yes. > > > 3. Do you agree that we can both agree on those two ages? > > > Yes. > > > 4. Do you agree that if we were at the same location we would be in the > same present moment? > > > If we were at the same space and time location, yes. > > > 5. Since you believe you are actually alive in every moment of your life, > including every past and future moment, why is this particular moment the > one you experience yourself in right now? > > > That's sort of trivial if you look at it the right way. They are all > different versions of me, and I'm the version of me who is writing this at > the moment. Each other version of me would say something similar, that they > are the version in their own here and now, and not any of the other > versions. > > > 6. Since you no doubt will claim that every one of your moment selves > experiences itself in its present moment, then how do you explain your > experience of time flowing from those past moments to the present one? And > how do you explain that you have no experience of any of your future moment > selves? If the past and present moments are equivalent, why are they not > symmetrical in this respect? > > > Block time is compatible with an arrow of time. As a model, consider a > computer simulation running on two separate computers, A and B. A is > simulating Monday and B is simulating Tuesday. The people simulated on B > remember being the people simulated on A, but not vice versa, even though A > and B are running simultaneously. > > > Again I know this conversation won't go anywhere. It's like trying to make > a logical argument to a cult member. > > And yes, our disagreement is p-time versus block time, because all your > arguments are basically based on your conviction there is no such thing as > an actual now, an actual present moment in which you exist and are actually > a particular age. > > > There's no special present moment. As an analogy, I feel that I am me, but > there are many other people in the world who feel that they are themselves. > I'm no more special than they are, and their sense of being themselves does > not detract from my sense of being myself. > > > If you could just accept that all my many arguments and examples would > follow logically. > > Last question: Why do you act every minute of every day as if you live in > a present moment through which clock time flows if it actually d > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" gro -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. 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