Hi Stathis,

First thanks for answering my questions that Jesse refused to answer. 

A few more questions if I may.

1. Are you a believer in a block universe, or are you just presenting the 
argument for it? The following questions assume belief.

2. You don't believe time flows, that everything in the block universe is 
completely static. Is that correct?

3. So if we can prove that time does flow would that be sufficient to 
disprove a block universe?

4. Do you believe that the appearance of time flowing, which we all have, 
is somehow a static perspective from some present moment along your 
historical worldline?

5. Do you believe that the appearance of time flowing is due to a single 
static perspective from a single fixed moment along your historical 
worldline, or the transition of static perspectives similar to a sequence 
of movie frames?

6. In other words, does anything actually move in your block universe, or 
not?

7. If not, how can a completely static perspective generate the illusion of 
movement through time? I claim it cannot. It can generate a freeze from 
perspective only, not the illusion of movement.

8. Since a block universe contains every detail of every event in the 
entire history of the universe from beginning to end, and those details 
demonstrate immensely complex and consistent causal sequences, how could 
they have all been created at the same time Acausally? What physical 
mechanism could possibly work out all causal sequences without doing it 
temporally?

9. Do you agree that this creation event (of the entire universe from 
beginning to end) would have been the most enormously improbably creation 
ever imaginable, a creation event that makes the Biblical creation event 
seem reasonable by comparison?

10. If you think there was no creation event, that the block universe 
always existed, do you agree that the assumption that the whole universe 
from beginning to end is the most UNparsimonius assumption possible and 
thus is the most least likely assumption based on Occam's Principle? 

Thanks,
Edgar



On Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:37:31 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 23, 2014, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net <javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>
>> Jesse,
>>
>> 1. Do you agree you are actually a particular age right now today as you 
>> read this?
>>
>
>  Not Jesse, but yes.
>
> 2. Do you agree that I am actually a particular age right now today as I 
>> write this, whether or not you know what that is?
>>
>
> Yes.
>  
>
>> 3. Do you agree that we can both agree on those two ages?
>>
>
> Yes.
>  
>
>> 4. Do you agree that if we were at the same location we would be in the 
>> same present moment?
>>
>
> If we were at the same space and time location, yes.
>  
>
>> 5. Since you believe you are actually alive in every moment of your life, 
>> including every past and future moment, why is this particular moment the 
>> one you experience yourself in right now?
>>
>
> That's sort of trivial if you look at it the right way. They are all 
> different versions of me, and I'm the version of me who is writing this at 
> the moment. Each other version of me would say something similar, that they 
> are the version in their own here and now, and not any of the other 
> versions.
>  
>
>> 6. Since you no doubt will claim that every one of your moment selves 
>> experiences itself in its present moment, then how do you explain your 
>> experience of time flowing from those past moments to the present one? And 
>> how do you explain that you have no experience of any of your future moment 
>> selves? If the past and present moments are equivalent, why are they not 
>> symmetrical in this respect?
>>
>
> Block time is compatible with an arrow of time. As a model, consider a 
> computer simulation running on two separate computers, A and B. A is 
> simulating Monday and B is simulating Tuesday. The people simulated on B 
> remember being the people simulated on A, but not vice versa, even though A 
> and B are running simultaneously.
>  
>
>> Again I know this conversation won't go anywhere. It's like trying to 
>> make a logical argument to a cult member.
>>
>> And yes, our disagreement is p-time versus block time, because all your 
>> arguments are basically based on your conviction there is no such thing as 
>> an actual now, an actual present moment in which you exist and are actually 
>> a particular age.
>>
>
> There's no special present moment. As an analogy, I feel that I am me, but 
> there are many other people in the world who feel that they are themselves. 
> I'm no more special than they are, and their sense of being themselves does 
> not detract from my sense of being myself.
>  
>
>> If you could just accept that all my many arguments and examples would 
>> follow logically.
>>
>> Last question: Why do you act every minute of every day as if you live in 
>> a present moment through which clock time flows if it actually doesn't? How 
>> can your mind be so completely deluded in this respect? Why does everyone 
>> in the world except a few members of the block universe cult believe this 
>> and act on it successfully every minute of their lives? Why is everyone in 
>> the world so deluded except for the block universe cult?
>>
>  
> Since proponents of the block universe claim that it creates the effect of 
> time flowing, this is not an argument against it.
>
>  One more question: Do you agree that if you lived in a block universe 
>> that you would be completely deterministic with no free will at all, and 
>> that you would be effectively a pre-programmed zombie?
>>
>
> If the block universe were deterministic, yes. But it need not be 
> deterministic (from the first person perspective) if it is a branching 
> multiverse. (And if it is deterministic that doesn't mean there is no free 
> will, and if there is no free will that doesn't mean we are zombies.)
>  
>
>> One more: If you flash freeze a brain with the exact state of its neural 
>> circuitry intact would that brain be alive or dead? Would it know what its 
>> state was? 
>>
>> Of course not, knowledge, like everything in the universe depends on 
>> change, on process, on the actual flow of time. A block universe is a 
>> universe of death, a universe populated entirely by deterministic zombies..
>>
>
> But if the block universe creates the effect of flowing time, as it must 
> if the idea is not to be summarily dismissed, this isn't an issue.
>  
>  

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