Jesse, Your position becomes more and more absurd.
You claim they DO have a unique 1:1 correlation of their ages when they are together but they DON'T when they separate. So how far do they have to separate before this correlation is lost? 1 meter? 1 kilometer, 1 light year? And is the correlation lost all at once as they separate or gradually? And if all at once, what is the threshold distance where correlation is lost? And if gradually what is the relativistic formula that determines how much the correlation falls off with distance? The fact is that both twins DO HAVE AN ACTUAL AGE AT ALL TIMES. You've already agreed to this obvious fact. Thus there absolutely MUST be an actual correlation of those ages. That is pure logic, not relativity. All you are saying is that relativity does not give a unique answer for what that correlation is. Sure, I agree completely. But my point is that if we choose the correct frame that preserves the relationship between ONLY the twins themselves we do get a unique unambiguous answer. And so that is the only correct answer. And it is consistent and transitive among all observers. Therefore it qualifies as an actual physical fact. All you are saying is that relativity doesn't have a way to calculate an age correlation. But not having a way to calculate something DOES NOT MEAN it doesn't actually exist, it just means it can't be calculated. Do you agree with that? So to falsify p-time you can't just say a correlation can't be calculated, you have to actually prove there is an actual CONTRADICTION between p-time and relativity. You haven't yet done that and I don't think you can... Note also that the GPS system DOES establish actual 1:1 correlations of proper times between satellites and ground based receivers both moving relative to each other and at distance from each other. if it didn't, it couldn't work. So even relativity tells us this is possible. Edgar On Sunday, March 2, 2014 7:52:12 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: > > > > On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]<javascript:> > > wrote: > > Jesse, > > OK good, that's what I assumed you meant. > > BUT now take the two twins at rest standing on opposite sides of the > earth, and then they each start walking in different directions. By your > criterion you then have to say that suddenly and instantly there is NO more > 1:1 correlation of their ages, that they COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY lose > their 1:1 age correlation they had at rest even if they take a SINGLE STEP! > > > You seem to have misunderstood me, although I thought I was pretty > clear--I said that they did NOT have a unique "actual" correlation in their > ages when they were at rest relative to each other but at different > positions in space, so nothing changes if they start walking, they still > don't have any unique "actual" correlation in their ages. Try reading what > I wrote again (with the correction I mentioned that 'any unique "actual" > truth about their ages' has been changed to 'any unique "actual" truth > about the correlation between their ages'): > > 'No, of course I wouldn't agree that there is any unique "actual" truth > about the correlation between their ages in this case, nor would any > mainstream physicist. What part of "all frames are equally valid" don't you > understand? Or do you not get that if we use an inertial frame where the > twins are both moving with the same constant velocity, they do NOT have > identical ages at any given moment in this frame? (assuming they had > identical ages at any given moment in their rest frame)' > > Jesse > > > > On Sunday, March 2, 2014 7:13:31 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 7:01 PM, Jesse Mazer <[email protected]> wrote: > > < > > ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
