On 14 Mar 2014, at 19:49, ghib...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, March 14, 2014 4:46:09 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 14 Mar 2014, at 17:08, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, March 7, 2014 8:18:22 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 07 Mar 2014, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/6/2014 2:58 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
My only comment is that I don't think X's hostility towards Bruno
started when he mentioned the question "Goedel?" in class. That, in
itself, should not be sufficient to earn the ire of even the most
seasoned of psychopaths. Instead, I suspect the relationship soured
badly during Bruno's end-of-studies dissertation, probably because
Bruno had an inquiring mind, and X just wanted him to focus on
his own
research interests (not an uncommon occurrance - I had something
similar in my PhD, but without the consequences Bruno
faced). Nevertheless, that doesn't excuse X's actions, which remain
appalling by anyone's standard.
Why so circumspect about the identity of X. With so many mentions
it would be easy for anyone to dig up to whom "X" refers, so why
not just use his name?
I avoid the name, because I want to avoid complications. I can tell
you out-of-line if you ask, and I might once day make public the
prosecution files.
He is an obscure guy, without any serious publications. Since those
events I got phone calls by people who attribute him many suicides,
and the facts that he exploits other people by pushing them to do
mistake, and then he exploits the pressure (shakedown, blackmail)
and things like that.
It is harassment by manipulation. He was almost a friend, always
nice and funny with me. It took me 20 years to figure out the
manipulation. Well, it took me to put that thesis down, as he was
forced to make a public move.
It is a sort of serial killer, without a trace. Many people were
shocked by his behavior, and even more by the fact that he got
protection from above, and has been able to pursue his violent
actions. He was a sort of genius in demolishing people (and then
even computers) at a distance. A mind hacker. He was not a bad
teacher. I did appreciate him and his teaching very much, despite
he told me that there was nothing interesting in Gödel's theorem.
He has been also alcoholic for some period, and heavy chain smoker,
even in the classroom (that was accepted long ago!).
As the logician Maurice Boffa was also a member of the jury of non
acceptance, I would like to insist that it was not him. On the
contrary, Boffa realized the manipulation and try hard to defend
me. Boffa was a real, and notorious mathematical logician, with
many important publications. Like Smets, Gochet, VandenBussche,
Boelen, and others, he died soon after those events.
l
Bruno
I'm sorry to hear what you went through. It's a nasty business
being caught up with a psychopath, if that's what he is. There are
obviously lots of ways for a person to end up ultra manipulative
and destructive. Non-psychopath destructive profiles are actually a
lot worse in some areas. Long term destructive antagonism the hat
goes way beyond anything to gain from, done with a smiling
face...that's a non-psychopath profile. People destroy eachother's
careers like that, usually when they start out friends, then the
relationship naturally adjusts the relative seniority due to talent
or whatever.
Typically the person on the down tries to adjust but struggles,
but things kind of fizzle out, normally including the closeness of
the relationship. Things go the other way and turn nasty normally
when the person on the up commits a competitive slight. Something
that on the face of it was perfectly reasonable, but with hindsight
was unnecessary.....involved piling it on when the relationship was
already reversing. Going onto that person's space and competing
there for, in hindsight, reasons of euphoria at things going well.
The person on the up does nothing wrong but the person on the down
takes it very hard. It feels like rubbing salt in the wound.
Signals are sent 'why are you doing this? But the other person
hasn't thought it through and transmits back a smiling face. Which
is misread and taken even harder and the dye is caste.
Some people can push someone to commit suicide for lucrative reason,
they are not psychopath, but not much more nice than those people
would push someone to commit suicide just for their own
satisfaction, and which would be my definition of "psychopath". Of
course the frontier between both might be thin, and when the
"killing" is moral, usually the killer can mask well his intentions.
It's true, and whether the individual is an innate psychopath or not
hardly matters in terms of that particular relationship, in which he
has locked onto a destruction seeking path. It's effectively a
psychopathic 1 on 1 (one way) situation. He's not empathizing.
Also, the behaviour can lock in at an earlier time of life, as the
outcome of an earlier relationship that went the way I exampled. It
might not have you at all. If the guy has a pattern of doing this to
people other than you, then that's the profile. Or maybe it started
with you.
Actually the guy has a long list of victims, some killed themselves.
It seems have been very bad with his wife too, which is rare in such
setting.
Either way it's not your fault, it's his fault. Either technically
or actually. We all have a responsibility when in the formal roe of
teacher, to special needs. The low ability have upfront special
needs. The gifted have special needs that have not happened yet,
that involves not us, but us in that formal role.
I agree.
We have to recognize there's always someone knock down more gifted.
And if we're teaching it could be one or more students coming
through more gifted. We have to make sure we don't set up the
psychology that makes the inevitable reversal hard. Because if we
don't do that, we are prone to destroy that persdon..break him down.
Because the 'hard' part wasn't about her, it was about us.
OK.
Bruno
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