________________________________
From: John Clark <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2014 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Climate models
On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Chris de Morsella <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Not a single LFTR unit is operating
>>That's true today but wasn't always the case, the last operating thorium
>>reactor on this planet, the MSRE at Oak Ridge was shut down in 1969. Of
>>course after 40 years of doing nothing and not spending a dime a lot of R&D
>>would be required before we could switch over to a Thorium based economy, but
>>it would be trivial compared with what would be required to make a practical
>>fusion reactor.
I have cited that reactor multiple times -- so it is not news to me. That is
all you have for LFTR -- a single research reactor that operated for a few
years some forty years ago.
Solar PV is here today -- and is being produced at industrial scales of
production as we speak; there is no contest between what technology is ramped
up and ready... and it is not LFTR.
> nor are there any blueprints to build one.
BULLSHIT.
Okay then loudmouth where are these actual blueprints?
Real, project ready blueprints. Not some back of the napkin calculations or the
ancient dust covered material from the single example of a small research scale
LFTR that was operated for a few years some forty years ago at Oak Ridge.
> There is no Thorium mining, refining
>> Oh for heavens sake! There is no Uranium shortage and Thorium is 4 times as
>> abundant and easier to separate from it's ore than Uranium is, and we can
>> only get energy from .7% of the Uranium but we can use 100% of the Thorium!
>> So do you REALLY want to say we shouldn't consider Thorium because we can't
>> get enough of it??
Wrong again the world is facing a recoverable uranium peak that will be reached
within a decade or two (at current extraction rates, if nuclear is ramped up
peak uranium will be reached that much sooner). Uranium reserves -- like most
other reserve figures have been highly overstated by the mine operators and
reserve owners -- the motive to do so is clear. A physicist friend of mine (who
works at CERN -- has written extensively about the issue of future uranium
supply)
>>As I say nobody would bother but even with today's primitive technology do
>>you have any evidence that it would take more energy than what 37 tons of
>>coal could provide to extract 12 grams of Thorium from one cubic meter of
>>randomly selected dirt?
>
>
>> You are the one making the claim; it is up to you to show how it can be done.
>> You are the one making the claim that extracting 12 grams of Thorium from
>> one meter of dirt would take more energy than the Thorium could produce, so
>> it is up to you to show it's true; although nobody would be dumb enough to
>> bother with such dirt when there is ore that contains 50% Thorium available.
>>
Whatever. I do not inhabit the same magical thinking universe you seem to live
in. I see the practical technological limits that constrain what can actually
be accomplished.
>>> My point remains valid and salient. Whenever anyone speaks of some resource
>>> reserve figure in practice what they are (or should be) referring to is the
>>> recoverable reserve figures. The quantity of some resource in the earth's
>>> crust may be interesting, but it is irrelevant in a discussion of reserves.
>
>> So let's review * Thorium is a element that is TWICE as common as TIN. *
>> Some natural ores are 50% Thorium. * One POUND of Thorium can provide as
>> much energy as 1,362 TONS of coal. * The best argument Chris de Morsella can
>> come up with against the use of Thorium is that there just isn't enough of
>> it.
>> Bull shit John. I have given you many different arguments
>> Many? You have only given 2 basic arguments. The first one is that we won't
>> be able to find enough Thorium to meet our needs and that argument is
>> downright imbecilic. Your second argument is that nobody has ever made a
>> large number of Thorium reactors and that is true, but from that you
>> conclude nobody ever could and that does not follow at all. And then you
>> say you like Thorium after all which contradicts everything you said before.
Nobody has made more than a single small scale research LFTR reactor let alone
a large number. You are smoking crack -- as we say in the software business. I
never said there was not recoverable Thorium either -- so stop trying to frame
me as having taken that position. What I have said and continue to say is that
there is no existing extraction infrastructure and that it would take a lot of
work and fossil energy to ramp such an infrastructure up.
You really do not understand the logistics very well, typical of magical
thinking.
>> The Cantarell oil field is not only the third biggest it is also the most
>> technologically primitive in the world, the reason is easy to understand. If
>> you're a Mexican farmer and oil is discovered on your land you don't own a
>> drop of it, the government owns it all and government bureaucrats have
>> little expertise in the science of oil drilling; and those experts who do
>> have such ability work for no government and prefer to apply their trade in
>> places like the USA where they can get a nice share of the profits. For this
>> reason the USA has not the largest but the most technologically advanced oil
>> fields in the world, and is why the USA has experienced such a huge increase
>> in oil and natural gas production in the last few years.
>
>> BULLSHIT John BULLSHIT to your BULLSHIT!!!
Copycat.
> PEMEX is not some dirt poor Mexican farmer
PEMEX is not dirt poor but judging from the way they operate their oil fields
they are as dumb as dirt, the technology is medieval compared with what's going
on in the USA.
And you know this how?
Chris de Morsella
John K Clark
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