Hi Samiya,
On 06 Apr 2014, at 15:41, Samiya Illias wrote:
Bruno,
Is French your first language?
Not really. (Born in Germany, german/polish nurse).
If so, you can download the original French book by Dr Maurice
Bucaille from the following link:
http://www.islamic-invitation.com/downloads/Bible-Quran-Science_fr.pdf
This study was made many years ago. If this inspires you, perhaps
you can give a fresh look at the scripture with modern scientific
knowledge.
I know you are wise enough to not fear my frank attitude, but the more
I look at it, the less I am convinced, even by the very enterprise.
An Alien might suggests "scientific knowledge", or some one just
introspect itself correctly, for a change, and get the "scientific"
insight, in which case the author was just quite well inspired, but
that cannot be seen as an evidence for God r the divine. I am not sure
there can be any 3p evidences, and certainly not a human text. This
does not mean that some text are not very deep, and you know my
respect for text like "the Milinda", or the "Theaetetus", or even
"Alice" ....
I'm sure that would explain many more verses in terms we can
comprehend in this day and age.
"Modern scientific knowledge", despite Godel and QM, are still
basically and in the mainstream deeply wrong about theology, so what
does it mean to compare a text and reinterpret it with that "non-
modern-at-all" respect?
How would you compare Bucaille and the old (almost lost, except still
present but obscured in the Sufi) neoplatonist muslims?
In theology my best reference are still in the greeks, the indians,
the chinese. In occident religion has been mixed to much with the
terrestrial goals, and the use of authority and violence, which
betrays the simplest modest conception I can access of the divine.
Bruno
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 04 Apr 2014, at 19:05, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 04 Apr 2014, at 11:44, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On 4 April 2014 20:33, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com
> wrote:
On 4 April 2014 15:59, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote:
I suggest we study and evaluate it for its literal merit, rather
than 'what it might mean' thus removing all constructs and myths
surrounding it. Dr. Maurice Bucaille did something similar when he
examined the scriptures in the light of scientific knowledge.
Online translation:
https://ia700504.us.archive.org/18/items/TheBibletheQuranScienceByDr.mauriceBucaille/TheBibletheQuranScienceByDr.mauriceBucaille.pdf
To be fair, you have to allow that if there is a scientific
inaccuracy in a holy book which is considered the word of God
then, unless God got the science wrong, that would be evidence
against the holy book being the word of God. The problem is that
even if a believer says they are open-minded in this way they
don't really mean it because that would be an admission that they
are willing to test God, which is contrary to faith and therefore
bad.
What are you called if you are willing to test god?
A believer?
Rational.
Yes. And as long the test does not contradict his theory, he can
develop a rational belief, which is basically a positive attitude
about some assumption.
In the case of "God", there is one more difficulty, which is the
difficulty to agree on some non trivial definition which should be
precise enough to make a test meaningful and interesting.
With some definition, God can also been disproved, or proved, in
mathematical theories. Gödel's formalization of St-Anselmus' notion
of God makes its existence provable in the modal logic S5 (the
Leibnizian theory).
About Bucaille I will take a second look, but from I read quickly,
it seems to me to take for granted Aristotle's God (the "creation",
the universe), and well, I have some doubt. It is very hard to
interpret such texts. It is too much "easy" to reinterpret
favorably some paragraph, and for a neoplatonist, this would mean
that the author of the sacred text did just have some insight/
intuition, which for a neoplatonist is always divine. In that case,
both the existence of the work of ramanujan, but also the existence
of arithmetic in high school are evidence for "some" God. "Alice in
Wonderland" too.
Why Alice in Wonderland?
You might read "the annotated Alice" by Martin Gardner. Lewis
Carroll "perturbed" classical logic, and found everything:
relativity, the quantum, Gödel, .... He is better than Plotinus.
Unfortunately, he was completely rejected by Charles Ludwig Dodgson,
who was quite reactionary---an aspect made quasi explicit in his
longer "Sylvie & Bruno". Is Mr Dodgson equal to Lewis Carroll?
The rabbit hole in Wonderland is very deep.
For example, it illustrates the hardness to reason with a relativist
nitpicker.
From memory:
Alice: I explore the garden ...
The queen: Oh! you can call that a garden, if you want, but I know
garden in comparison with which this one is more like a desert.
Alice: ... and want to see that hill.
The queen: Oh! you can call that a hill, if you want, but I know
hills in comparison with which this one is more like a valley.
Alice: That is not possible, a hill cannot be a valley, that would
be a nonsense!
The queen: Oh, you can call that a nonsense, if you want, but I know
nonsense in comparison with which this one is as meaningful than a
dictionary!
:)
Bruno
I am uneasy with a priori sacralization of books, as it looks to me
like an encouragement to authoritative arguments. Any one is free
to feel some text divine, but to put "divine" on the front looks
close to blasphemous to me (doubly so when true).
Bruno
--
Stathis Papaioannou
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