Hi John,
On 26 Apr 2014, at 23:54, John Mikes wrote:
Telmo: an AWFUL image! Someone wanted to get 'eternal' bliss for
composing it SO complicated. (Mind you: 'eternal' does not mean a
timespan.) When I still used the "atheist" epitheton I called the
IRS (Tax office in the US) and asked if I can get a tax-free status
for establishing an 'atheist' church with my friends? The answer was
(and I could not believe the IRS has any humor): Of course, as long
as you identify the "GOD" you pray to.
I wonder (Bruno!) if Materialism is a religion? unless we call ALL
philosophys so, that are based on some basic beliefs. Atheism lately
refers in my vocabulary to an ignorance about "GOD" - needed for
denial.
To make easier comparative theology, I like to define God by anything
transcendental responsible for our existence. It does not need to be a
person, like the chinese Tao.
So, the belief in matter is not necessarily a religion.
The belief in a *primitive matter" ("really" existing, or
ontologically primary) is not a religion too, although closer, because
a dualist can believe in both "really existing" matter and some God
using it to create us.
But the belief in *only* primitive matter makes that matter
responsible for our existence, and that belief is a religion. And
indeed it behaves like a pseudo-religion, with its intolerance, lack
of doubt, etc.
My agnosticism has one basic belief: that there is more to
'it' (i.e. the World, the Everything) than what we may know.
I think the same. That's close to Platonism. There is more than what
we see, measure, etc.
Then we can theorize, which means making assumptions (like "the moon
exist"), and experimentation, like "going on the moon". This will not
prove that the moon exists in any real or fundamental way, but that
can still compress a lot of information, and we can go on, until we
detect the flaws, and build a better theory.
Way beyond our imagination and fantasies. Beyond those qualia we try
to fix within our mental capabilities.
I confess I did not minutiously go through the graph so I don't know
if power-connections are included server by the faith?
The "fear-factors" of religions definitely point to such.
The "Creator" is still on: we have no idea how that big cabooz got
started. If there was a SuperNat'l Power, where did THAT stem from
and where did that earlier Stemmer stem from? Why do the 'recent' (I
mean biblical?) gods carry those human deficiencies, like a need to
be adored, obeyed, confessed-to, irritability, wrath, and so on and
on? If the Creator(?) knows everything, why are we, creatures,
required to evolve and 'get better'? Why "sin"? Why hell? Who made
Satan?
(and 1000 more questions).
"sin" is easy to explain. When something bad happen to a neighbor,
fear pushes us into thinking that the guy deserves it. Bad luck is too
much terrifying, and so we imagine that the guy has sinned. Then, when
more global catastrophes occurs, we interpret it similarly as a
punishment, and derive from this that we have sinned (like doing too
much C02). Then when religion get authoritative, the idea of sin is a
very useful as a manipulative tools (catholic exploited this a lot).
Where does God come from? With computationalism, 'Truth' (or just
arithmetical truth) is, or plays well, the role of God, or of a sort
of first approximation of God, and in this case, the "clever" creature
(the numbers, the machines) can explain why they cannot answer that
question. The existence of numbers is an unavoidable total mystery.
The problem with the recent (biblical) religions, is that instead of
encouraging people to question everything and do personal research,
they idolize images, words and books, which leads to authoritative
violent means of persuasion, and to terrestrial power, which has no
more anything to do with the divine. It becomes the usual (alas) human
abuse of human, and that might be the "real" sin.
Sincerely yours,
Bruno
Faithfully yours
John Mikes
On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]
> wrote:
http://infinitemachine.tumblr.com/image/83867790181
A nice weekend to everyone!
Telmo.
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