On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:45 PM, [email protected] <[email protected] > wrote:
> Richard, > > I suppose it comes down to what you call a universe. > > Would you say there is any difference that matters between a single > universe that contains all possible experiences vs. Many universes which > only in aggregate contain all possible universes? > Neither is religiously acceptable Richard > Jason > > > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Richard Ruquist" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: study of salvia reportage - brain region pointed to > Date: Wed, May 28, 2014 2:39 PM > > > Bruno, > I do not like comp in the form that it predicts MWI, that is Everett's > reality. > > My perspective is based on belief, indeed religious belief that the > universe is singular > and that somehow a single quantum state is selected in each interaction > from the assortment that can be rigorously calculated > ahead of time, perhaps using the Leibniz principle > of the best of all possible worlds is selected. > > Since comp predicts consciousness > and presumably a universal consciousness > such a consciousness could make the selection > but that is using god to fill a gap. > Richard > > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Nice post! > > > > Interesting, and indeed very reasonable with comp, in its expectable > > natural realizations. I agree on points on salvia too, except that > salvia's > > reports witness extreme asymmetrical phenomena, which suggests some > > disconnection between the left brain and the right brain. Of course it > is a > > very complex matter, but there are tools (some a bit toxic though, some > > other not). > > > > Salvia action is believed to be very specific, and what makes salvia > > attractive for such studies is that when smoked, the experience last for > 4m > > to 8m in the average, on sober people. You feel quite well after (unless > > the goal was taking a superdose for making a funny video for youtube in > > company of light and noisy sitters, that is using it contradicting the > user > > guide, or common sense when you know what the plant is capable of). > > > > No doubt we will come back on this. I have *many* theories on salvia in > > the comp realm. Including possible different report predictions for > > different people. > > > > Nice paper, but it still miss Everett's and comp's ways of > differentiation > > of consciousness. > > > > Comp is not just testable, it is improvable, but to play fair the game, > > and keep the comp qualia/quanta distinction, the improvement should not > > just be based with the experimental facts, but with the arithmetical > > formulation of the measure problem. > > > > Consciousness is not located in the brain. It is a "quasi-arithmetical" > > notion, like "arithmetical truth itself". Its differentiation will make > it > > seemingly related to special representations, but that might be > transitory, > > and the uniqueness of them is a delusion. > > > > You said you don't believe in comp, and I guess you meant that you > believe > > that comp is untrue, isn't it? What is your opinion on Everett? I think > you > > told us that you reject it? I am not sure. If you reject Everett it is > > normal that you reject comp. (Note that Crick use comp in the paper, and > > indeed it is common in that field, even Hameroff use comp (only Penrose > > suggested a non-comp theory, where indeed gravitation collapse the wave > in > > a way non predictible by QM). > > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > > On 28 May 2014, at 17:23, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > - they were more likely to believe they were in an environment > > > completely different from the physical space they were actually in > -----> > > sounds familiar > > - they often believed to be interacting with "beings" such as > > > hallucinated dead people, aliens, fairies or mythical creatures > ------> > > machines > > - the often reported "ego dissolution", a variety of experiences in > > > which the self ceased to exist in the user's subjective experience. > ------> > > 3p? > > > > > > > > Is the key to consciousness in the claustrum?by Klaus M. Stiefel, The > > > Conversation > > [image: Is the key to consciousness in the claustrum?] > > The location of the claustrum (blue) and the cingulate cortex (green), > > another brain region likely to act as a global integrator. The person > whose > > brain is shown is looking to the right (see the inset in the top right > > corner). Credit: Brain …more< > http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-05-key-consciousness-claustrum.html> > > > > > Consciousness is one of the most fascinating and elusive phenomena we > > humans face. Every single one of us experiences it but it remains > > surprisingly poorly understood. > > > > That said, psychology, neuroscience and philosophy are currently making > > interesting progress in the comprehension of this phenomenon. > > > > The main player in this story is something called the claustrum< > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/claustrum>. > > > The word originally described an enclosed space in medieval European > > monasteries but in the mammalian brain it refers to a small sheet of > > neurons just below the cortex< > http://biology.about.com/od/anatomy/p/cerebral-cortex.htm>, > > > and possibly derived from it in brain development. > > > > The cortex <http://medicalxpress.com/tags/cortex/> is the massive folded > > > layer on top of the brain mainly responsible for many higher brain > > functions such as language, long-term planning and our advanced sensory > > functions. > > > > Interestingly, the claustrum is strongly reciprocally connected to many > cortical > > areas <http://medicalxpress.com/tags/cortical+areas/>. The visual > cortex<http://medicalxpress.com/tags/visual+cortex/> (the > > > region involved in seeing) sends axons (the connecting "wires" of the > > nervous system) to the claustrum, and also receives axons from the > > claustrum. > > > > The same is true for the auditory cortex< > http://medicalxpress.com/tags/auditory+cortex/> (involved > > > in hearing) and a number of other cortex areas. A wealth of information > > converges in the claustrum and leaves it to re-enter the cortex. > > > > *The connection* > > > > Francis Crick< > http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1962/crick-bio.html> > – > > who together with James Watson< > http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1962/watson-facts.html> > gave > > > us the structure of DNA – was interested in a connection between the > > claustrum and consciousness < > http://medicalxpress.com/tags/consciousness/> > > . > > > > In a recent paper, published in Frontiers in Integrative Neuroscience< > http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fnint.2014.00020/abstract>, > > > we have built on the ideas he described in his very last scientific > > publication <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569501/>. > > > > Crick and co-author Christoph Koch< > http://www.alleninstitute.org/our-institute/our-team/profiles/christof-koch> > argued > > that the claustrum could be a coordinator of cortical function< > http://www.klab.caltech.edu/news/crick-koch-05.pdf> and > > > hence a "conductor of consciousness". > > > > Such percepts as colour, form, sound, body position and social relations > > are all represented in different parts of the cortex. How are they bound > to > > a unified experience of consciousness? Wouldn't a region exerting a (even > > limited) central control over all these cortical areas be highly useful? > > > > This is what Crick and Koch suggested when they hypothesised the > claustrum > > to be a "conductor of consciousness". But how could this hypothesis about > > the claustrum's role be tested? > > > > *Plant power alters the mind* > > > [image: Is the key to consciousness in the claustrum?] > > Salvia divinorum (Herba de Maria). Credit: Wikipedia, CC BY > > > > Enter the plant *Salvia divinorum > > <https://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml>*, a type of mint > > > native to Mexico. The Mazatecs civilisation's priests would chew its > leaves > > to get in touch with the gods. > > > > It's a powerful psychedelic, but not of the usual type. Substances such > as > > LSD <https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml> andpsylocibin< > https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml> (the > > > active compound in "magic" mushrooms) mainly act by binding to the > > serotonin neuromodulator receptor proteins. > > > > It is not completely understood how these receptors bring about altered > > states of consciousness, but a reduction of the inhibitory (negative > > feedback) communication between neurons in the cortex likely plays a > role. > > > > In contrast, *Salvia divinorum* acts on the kappa-opiate receptors< > http://www.guidetopharmacology.org/GRAC/ObjectDisplayForward?objectId=318 > >. > > > These are structurally related, but their activation has quite different > > effects than the mu-opiate receptors< > http://www.guidetopharmacology.org/GRAC/ObjectDisplayForward?objectId=319 > >which > > > bind substances such as morphine or heroin. > > > > In contrast to the mu-opiate receptors, which are involved in the > > processing of pain, the role of the kappa-opiate receptors is somewhat > > poorly understood. > > > > Where are these kappa-opiate receptors located in the brain? You might > > have guessed it, they are most densely concentrated in the claustrum (and > > present at lower densities in a number of other brain regions such as the > > frontal cortex and the amygdala). > > > > So, the activity of *Salvia* likely inhibits the claustrum via its > > activation of the kappa-opiate receptors. Consuming *Salvia* might just > > > cause the inactivation of the claustrum necessary to test Crick and > Koch's > > hypothesis. > > > > *Any volunteers?* > > > > > Did we administer this psychedelic to a group of volunteers to then > record > > their hallucinations and altered perceptions? Well, no. To get ethics > > approval for such an experiment with a substance outlawed in Australia > > would be near impossible. > > > > While *Salvia* is not known to be toxic or addictive, the current > > > societal climate is not very sympathetic towards psychoactive substances > > other than alcohol. > > > > But fortunately we had an alternative. The website Erowid.org< > https://www.erowid.org/> hosts > > > a database of many thousand trip reports, submitted by psychedelic > > enthusiasts, describing often in considerable detail what went on in > their > > minds when consuming a wide selection of substances. > > > > We analysed trip reports from this website written by folks who had > > consumed *Salvia divinorum* and, for comparison, LSD. > > > > We found that subjects consuming *Salvia* were more likely to experience > > > a few select psychological effects: > > > > - they were more likely to believe they were in an environment > > > completely different from the physical space they were actually in > > - they often believed to be interacting with "beings" such as > > > hallucinated dead people, aliens, fairies or mythical creatures > > - the often reported "ego dissolution", a variety of experiences in > > > which the self ceased to exist in the user's subjective experience. > > > > … and this means? > > > > Altered surroundings, other beings and ego dissolution – this surely > hints > > at a disturbance of the "conductor of consciousness", as expected if the > > conductor claustrum is perturbed by *Salvia divinorum*. > > > > > If a region central to the integration of consciously represented > > information is disturbed in its function, we would expect fundamental > > disturbances in the conscious experience. The core of a person's > > consciousness seems to be altered by *Salvia divinorum*, rather than > > > merely some distortions of vision or audition. > > > > We believe that the psychological effects of *Salvia divinorum*, together > > > with the massive concentration of the kappa-opiate receptors (the target > > molecules of *Salvia divinorum*) in the claustrum support its role as a > > > central coordinator of consciousness. > > > > It's worth noting that our results were not black-and-white. The users of > > LSD also experienced (albeit to a lesser degree) translation into altered > > environments, fairies and ego dissolution. > > > > This, together with a review of the literature convinced us that the > > claustrum is one of the conductors of consciousness, with brain areas > > cingulate cortex and pulvinar likely being the other ones. > > > > Still, the claustrum appears to be special in the brain's connectivity > and > > we think that*Salvia* can inactivate it. We hope that the experimental > > > neuroscience community will take advantage of the window into the mind > > which this unique substance provides. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
