Dear Chris, not that your answer sounds a bit vague - I have deeper problems. In my lately (2+decades) absobed agnostic views I find our science a bit incomplete as explanatory ideas (with mathematical underlying) upon poorly understood (iff...?) phenomena adjusted both into the *previous* images AND the capabilities of our *present* mentality (previous meaning here: based on an inventory of old, explained as well on the basis of the THEN theories we could manage). I find the dark things (matter, energy, hole) exciting and brilliant. Not 'real'. They serve well in bringing our incomplete theories into a fit (just as the 'inflation' after the Big Bang etc.). As a former chemist (1/2c polymer pioneering) I do not believe (my own?) molecules of which I derived implemented technologies. They are maybe-s. How 'bout infinite complexities?
Best regards John M On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 11:37 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > > *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: > everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *John Mikes > *Sent:* Friday, June 20, 2014 1:52 PM > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > > *Subject:* Re: Solar power's "bright future" [ may be brighter thanks to > us aping the quantum trickery of certain algae (cryptophytes specifically)] > > > > They ARE black! Our eyes err. - Without joke: > > how about those plants that are not green? do they have a chlorophyl > > variation that is not green? or a different photosynth-mechsm? > > JM > > > > Not sure I understand what you are saying – How I have understood the > terms -- darkness (or black materials as well) is the absence of photons, > or for a black material the absorption of incident photons. Plants reflect > a large number of photons. This glaring (well reflective at least LOL) > sub-optimal utilization of available spectrum does seem to indicate that > this could be the result of a local evolutionary optima as Russell > suggested. > > My – off the top of my head guess – would be that the genetics and/or the > molecular machinery of chloroplasts have evolved into this corner and > cannot back out of this local optimization without breaking the machinery > in place that is necessary in order to sustain the organism. Even with this > sub-optimal apparatus green plants have done well for themselves on earth – > a life form just needs to be good enough to outcompete the alternatives and > fill an environmental niche (until it meets its match or the edge > boundaries of the niche in which it has a competitive advantage) > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > > On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:15 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have long thought that plants should be black, too, for this reason. > Anyone know why not? > > > > On 20 June 2014 11:40, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Perhaps because the two mechanisms function quite differently and > apparently evolved independently. But I also sometimes wonder why in the > many hundreds of millions of years of time that no species has found a way > to utilize the missing chunk of spectrum. > > A perfect plant would have jet black leaves -- and use photons across all > wavelengths of the spectrum. Then there truly would be black forests. > > Chris > > > > > > Bacteriorhodopsin - Boundless Open Textbook > <https://www.boundless.com/microbiology/microbial-metabolism/phototrophy/bacteriorhodopsin/> > > [image: image] > <https://www.boundless.com/microbiology/microbial-metabolism/phototrophy/bacteriorhodopsin/> > > Bacteriorhodopsin - Boundless Open Textbook > <https://www.boundless.com/microbiology/microbial-metabolism/phototrophy/bacteriorhodopsin/> > > Bacteriorhodopsin acts a proton pump, generating cellular energy in a > manner independent of chlorophyll. Read more about bacteriorhodopsin in the > Bou... > > View on *www.boundless.com* > <https://www.boundless.com/microbiology/microbial-metabolism/phototrophy/bacteriorhodopsin/> > > Preview by Yahoo > > > *Bacteriorhodopsin acts a proton pump, generating cellular energy in a > manner independent of chlorophyll.* > KEY POINTS > > · Bacteriorhodopsin is a proton pump found in Archaea, it takes light > energy and coverts it into chemical energy, ATP, that can be used by the > cell for cellular functions. > > · Bacteriorhodopsin forms chains, which contain retinal molecule > <https://www.boundless.com/definition/molecules/> within, it is the > retinal molecule that absorbs a photon from light, it then changes the > confirmation of the nearby Bacteriorhodopsin protein, allowing it to act as > a proton pump. > > · While chlorophyll based ATP generation depends on a protein gradient, > like bacteriorhodopsin, but with striking differences, suggesting that > phototrophy evolved in bacteria > <https://www.boundless.com/definition/bacteria/> and archaea > independently of each other. > > [snip] > > These [bacteriochlorophylls ] also produce a proton gradient, but in a > quite different and more indirect way involving an electron transfer chain > consisting of several other proteins. Furthermore, chlorophylls are aided > in capturing light energy by other pigments known as "antennas"; these are > not present in bacteriorhodopsin-based systems. Last, chlorophyll-based > phototrophy is coupled to carbon fixation > <https://www.boundless.com/definition/fixation/> (the incorporation of > carbon dioxide into larger organic molecules) and for that reason is > photosynthesis, which is not true for bacteriorhodopsin-based system. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:51 AM > > > *Subject:* Re: Solar power's "bright future" [ may be brighter thanks to > us aping the quantum trickery of certain algae (cryptophytes specifically)] > > > > On 6/18/2014 3:15 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: > > >>But it does illustrate the way evolution can get stuck in a local > optima. And also further evidence that any purported Creator must be > completely incompetent. > > > > Evolution always must begin with a preexisting platform -- so to speak -- > and builds on top of it (in an evolutionary way). > > > Yes, I'd heard the story about the purple bacteriodopsin that used the > middle part of the visible spectrum. But the implication is that these > bacteria were shading the bacteria or algae that developed chlorophyll. > Which might be true, but they've not been shading them for the last billion > years or so since plants came onto the land. So I don't see it has a local > optimum. There's a big chunk of spectrum right there adjacent to the > spectrum being used. There doesn't seem to be any significant barrier. > > Brent > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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