Chris, I could respond in many ways, but none seems adequate. I could say that I believe because I find the Quran to be factually correct, but that only vindicated my belief... I could say that as I studied and observed the beauty and the patterns in nature, the finest details, I became convinced that there had to be a Creator behind it, but that also only vindicated my belief... I could think that may be since I was born in the faith, perhaps that's why it was natural, but I was asking questions, and I must admit, sometimes even fantasising how it would have been to be born in another faith or culture... I can say that the trials and experiences of life brought me closer to God, made me study the faith earnestly, and helped me discover the endless patience and my loving God through it all. Yet, I think, the latent belief was there all along, it was only my conscious self which took its own sweet time to realise and appreciate it! Whatever may the reason be, I'm glad that I'm a believer, and I lovingly worship my Creator. Perhaps this short video expresses it more eloquently: http://www.andiesisle.com/creation/magnificent.html Regards, Samiya
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:41 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote: > Samiya…. May I ask you why you believe. It is obvious that you do believe, > but why… and please not the canned answer supplied by dogma but the deep > inner personal reasons that motivate you to believe? > > Can we cut through all the bull shit and get straight at the core of the > matter… with the simple direct question of why? > > Not in the generic sense, but rather in the exquisitely personal dimension > of your own innermost wellspring of being.. your own emergent > self-awareness. (which you believe was given to you by your God) > > Why? > > What is your personal story. Dogma does not interest me in the least; > personal stories I do however find fascinating. > > Chris, in the Pacific Northwest (one of the best spots on the earth) > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Samiya Illias > *Sent:* Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:04 PM > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: Pluto bounces back! > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 1:31 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Another example: does the Quran allow for possibility that it could be > wrong etc? PGC > > > > No, it doesn't, as explained above. It allows for human evaluation, > > > > Which is pretty pointless, if the text is god's truth written large. This > kind of fake advertising of scientific doubt is also present in the Bible; > e.g. doubting apostle Thomas. As in "yes, if you are the doubting type... > we've reserved a place for you." > > My answer is: "Sorry, you don't allow real doubt. Thomas and these figures > can only doubt inside the book, not the book itself. Your doubt is false > doubt." > > > > and suggests parameters that we can use such as discrepancy, > falsifiability, trying to write a similar book without God's help, > > > > How can we even be sure the Quran, Bible, etc. are written with god's > help? How can we be sure it is not a political tool of men, pretending to > be god's voice simply, for obvious human reason? > > > > etc., and repeatedly claims that this Book is without any crookedness, > > > > You do not address the problem of blaspheme raised and continue to make > statements about "him", even though you believe you cannot understand him. > > Apologies, but that is "crooked" to me. > > > > errors or mistakes, and a guidance and blessing from the Lord of the > Worlds. > > > > If I may suggest, keep asking questions and doubting, > > > > I do such with or without Quran. > > > > and at the same time, also read through the entire text of the Quran. > > > > I think I've had enough for some time: the way you present it in these > quotes, Allah is vain, boastful (needs a book and people to do advertising > for him), vengeful and cruel tester of creation he despises (why test and > punish? why cultural preferences?), and the "crooked" move of writing about > god when you admit that nothing can be said about god. > > For today, that is enough for me and it looks from your quotes like the > book wants to convert people in typical manipulation through fear > mechanism. I'm sure there are deeper ways to comprehend Quran, but today > and through these quotes I don't see them. > > And since I can hypnotize myself to like almost anything, given enough > time, I'm sure I could do it with Quran as well. But today I choose to > doubt + it doesn't look much fun from the scripture quoted here; like I > have to run around and convert people to some book that tells them to be > frightened if they don't read it, and if they doubt, I just repeat them to > keep reading. > > I respect a possible god's creation more than thinking it somebody's job > to convert people. This makes god's magnificence, as you call it, very > small. I still have no idea of whether you see the blaspheme problem here > or not. PGC > > > > We agree that it is blasphemy to attribute to God or make statements on > God's behalf what God hasn't stated. However, we also consider it blasphemy > to deny God or God's communication, pretending that God hasn't sent any > message, when God has indeed provided guidance for humans. You seem to > think that the Message is for a particular culture, I tell you its for all > humanity from the Lord of the Worlds. God doesn't need us or our service, > it is we who need God and God's guidance, since it is our future that > depends on our beliefs and actions. Just as we have no choice over our own > self's birth and death, similarly we have no choice in being resurrected > for an immortal life. Our future well-being depends on the sincerity of our > thoughts and actions in the present! > > > > Samiya > > > > > > Some very good resources on the web give multiple translations in many > languages, as well as Arabic text, and lexicon. I think you'll find that > the Quran addresses many of your questions and doubts in a much clearer and > direct way. Just a few minutes every morning, it just might be worth it! > > > > Samiya > > > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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