From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Chris,
I could respond in many ways, but none seems adequate.
Samiya – matters of this nature are never easy to discuss… so no worries.
I could say that I believe because I find the Quran to be factually correct,
but that only vindicated my belief...
Good point.
I could say that as I studied and observed the beauty and the patterns in
nature, the finest details,
I too have studied the beauty and patterns in nature in detail… and am awed by
the elegance of it all as well.
I became convinced that there had to be a Creator behind it, but that also only
vindicated my belief...
Could you’re a priori belief have caused you to become convinced?
I could think that may be since I was born in the faith, perhaps that's why it
was natural, but I was asking questions, and I must admit, sometimes even
fantasising how it would have been to be born in another faith or culture... I
can say that the trials and experiences of life brought me closer to God, made
me study the faith earnestly, and helped me discover the endless patience and
my loving God through it all.
You can say all these things, and I am sure that for you they did result in you
becoming closer to your faith. But these same things you speak of had different
outcomes in the hearts of different people. I am not trying to diminish your
personal story, but making the point that the experience of life and the
wonders of existence and nature has brought different meaning for different
people.
Is their meaning less valid than yours?
Yet, I think, the latent belief was there all along, it was only my conscious
self which took its own sweet time to realise and appreciate it! Whatever may
the reason be, I'm glad that I'm a believer, and I lovingly worship my Creator.
I can tell that you do. I am interested in finding out what it was – within you
– that germinated your belief… or was it already there in you by having been
born into the faith.
Perhaps this short video expresses it more eloquently:
http://www.andiesisle.com/creation/magnificent.html
Forgive me, but I am more interested in hearing what you think than in the
expressions contained within some video.
Reagrds,
Chris
Regards,
Samiya
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:41 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
<[email protected]> wrote:
Samiya…. May I ask you why you believe. It is obvious that you do believe, but
why… and please not the canned answer supplied by dogma but the deep inner
personal reasons that motivate you to believe?
Can we cut through all the bull shit and get straight at the core of the
matter… with the simple direct question of why?
Not in the generic sense, but rather in the exquisitely personal dimension of
your own innermost wellspring of being.. your own emergent self-awareness.
(which you believe was given to you by your God)
Why?
What is your personal story. Dogma does not interest me in the least; personal
stories I do however find fascinating.
Chris, in the Pacific Northwest (one of the best spots on the earth)
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pluto bounces back!
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 1:31 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
<[email protected]> wrote:
Another example: does the Quran allow for possibility that it could be wrong
etc? PGC
No, it doesn't, as explained above. It allows for human evaluation,
Which is pretty pointless, if the text is god's truth written large. This kind
of fake advertising of scientific doubt is also present in the Bible; e.g.
doubting apostle Thomas. As in "yes, if you are the doubting type... we've
reserved a place for you."
My answer is: "Sorry, you don't allow real doubt. Thomas and these figures can
only doubt inside the book, not the book itself. Your doubt is false doubt."
and suggests parameters that we can use such as discrepancy, falsifiability,
trying to write a similar book without God's help,
How can we even be sure the Quran, Bible, etc. are written with god's help? How
can we be sure it is not a political tool of men, pretending to be god's voice
simply, for obvious human reason?
etc., and repeatedly claims that this Book is without any crookedness,
You do not address the problem of blaspheme raised and continue to make
statements about "him", even though you believe you cannot understand him.
Apologies, but that is "crooked" to me.
errors or mistakes, and a guidance and blessing from the Lord of the Worlds.
If I may suggest, keep asking questions and doubting,
I do such with or without Quran.
and at the same time, also read through the entire text of the Quran.
I think I've had enough for some time: the way you present it in these quotes,
Allah is vain, boastful (needs a book and people to do advertising for him),
vengeful and cruel tester of creation he despises (why test and punish? why
cultural preferences?), and the "crooked" move of writing about god when you
admit that nothing can be said about god.
For today, that is enough for me and it looks from your quotes like the book
wants to convert people in typical manipulation through fear mechanism. I'm
sure there are deeper ways to comprehend Quran, but today and through these
quotes I don't see them.
And since I can hypnotize myself to like almost anything, given enough time,
I'm sure I could do it with Quran as well. But today I choose to doubt + it
doesn't look much fun from the scripture quoted here; like I have to run around
and convert people to some book that tells them to be frightened if they don't
read it, and if they doubt, I just repeat them to keep reading.
I respect a possible god's creation more than thinking it somebody's job to
convert people. This makes god's magnificence, as you call it, very small. I
still have no idea of whether you see the blaspheme problem here or not. PGC
We agree that it is blasphemy to attribute to God or make statements on God's
behalf what God hasn't stated. However, we also consider it blasphemy to deny
God or God's communication, pretending that God hasn't sent any message, when
God has indeed provided guidance for humans. You seem to think that the Message
is for a particular culture, I tell you its for all humanity from the Lord of
the Worlds. God doesn't need us or our service, it is we who need God and God's
guidance, since it is our future that depends on our beliefs and actions. Just
as we have no choice over our own self's birth and death, similarly we have no
choice in being resurrected for an immortal life. Our future well-being depends
on the sincerity of our thoughts and actions in the present!
Samiya
Some very good resources on the web give multiple translations in many
languages, as well as Arabic text, and lexicon. I think you'll find that the
Quran addresses many of your questions and doubts in a much clearer and direct
way. Just a few minutes every morning, it just might be worth it!
Samiya
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