Alberto,
What I don't understand in your reasoning is how you can take evolution as
the ultimate theory on humans behavior and, at the same time, believe that
culture is becoming degenerate and that we should personally take stock and
do something about it.
Surely these new tribes that you despise are also a product of evolution?
You seem to anthropomorphize evolution, as if it had some goal or preferred
state. Evolution is a self-referential, self-adaptive process. It can
generate mind-boggling complexity, yet you seem to believe that organisms
susceptible to cultural determinism are not on the table.
It is also orders of magnitude slower than our brains.
Cheers
Telmo.
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Additionally,
>
> I don´t know how to remark that you systematically forget the notion
> that the rejection of God as a coverup for the rejection of God´s
> creation, a rejection of the current state of nature and society. If that
> were not the case, it would not make sense the rejection of something with
> no effects watsoever in life.
>
> For the atheist, God's creation is nothing but the poisonous effects
> in the minds of people, so that they do not show (epic fanfares start
> to sound) "the complete unfolding of human potentialities"
>
> But that cultural determinism has been refuted time ago, despite the
> fact that it remain in fashion and gives comfortable seats in politics
> and the university. Gender studies, gender politics etc etc etc. But
> it has been refuted. It is just a matter of taking seriously natural
> selection and applying it to the human being. Natural laws are not
> compatible with cultural determinism. Period.
>
> You can take a look at the book: "The blank slate", from Steven
> Pinker. There are very clear evolutionary reasons why human nature is
> what it is, and there are very compelling reasing why human societies
> have certain institutions and not others, in the same way that we can
> not fly by moving the ears. Either facts are not something for which
> the Church is responsible, no matter how shoking may be for some
> people. The traditional religions only take note of what is natural
> and put them in the books.
>
> For some agnostics, It is the opposite. God may be a product of
> evolutionary forces that shaped the mind of the people and configure
> the society.
>
> BUT, let´s admit it, for the shake of argument: BUT your mind
> configure your world
> and your reality, the only reality you can perceive. Then, under that
> assumption, God must be real. The vision of a person as a person instead
> of as a blob of faceless matter is also a product of natural
> selection. That does not mean that persons do not exist. they exist. .
>
> For the deists, God is something not accessible, that do not interfere
> in your life. But Truth for a mind never have a neutral value. Not as
> long as that mind gobern a body that has to find ways for subsistence.
> ideas don´t sustain themselves in the platonic realm. They exist
> because they have a practical value since the mind is ultimately a
> product of the accomodation to the restrictions of the environment.
> Therefore the mind do not adopt ideas for nothing, specially the ones
> as important as to take us days and days of discussion.
>
> What is observable in all locations and times is that people follow
> leaders, not naked ideas. Religions and ideologies with the power to
> change things are created around concrete people that have ideas but
> not around naked ideas. This is because ideas do not coordinate
> people. it is necessary a leader, that proposes a path in life
> compatible with these ideas. Any truth with motivational and vital
> significance ever involves a person that lead it. Any Truth that you
> may follow are not naked
> ideas, but involve people that have ideas and plans of action, paths
> in life. And as social being we need plans to live with people
> according with them. There is no alternative.
>
> That is why when Jesuschrist say: "I´m the Way, the Truth and the
> Life" says something very deep in psychological, metaphisical and
> religious terms at the same time.
>
> As eartly minds with bodies in charge of, you have to follow someone,
> or you may try to be one that others may follow, or you may do nothing
> and stay in dilettant and sterile nothingness for life. The latter
> seems the non-path of modernity. And you and your people for sure will
> vanish under people that DO have a path in life, that follows a
> leader.
>
> Alternatively, you can follow a earthy leader. That is very dangerous,
> as you know if you read history books. Almost as dangerous and
> destructive as not following anyone at all and vanish after doing
> nothing in life.
>
> Christ is the best option. More on that sometime later
>
>
> 2014-07-18 11:52 GMT+02:00, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>:
> > Thereforeeee... my dear friends atheists, agnostics and deists....
> >
> > The salvation vessel of monistic materialism, the theories of
> > everything that predict infinite many universes with infinite physical
> > laws, either arithmetical or mathemathical, are compatible with any
> > metaphisical or theological position: metaphysical dualism,
> > monotheism, politheism etc
> >
> > in a sense these theories not only give zero information in physical
> > terms but also in metaphysical terms. So we can say that they are
> > perfect non-theories.
> >
> > 2014-07-17 19:07 GMT+02:00, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>:
> >> Why I have to claim that?
> >>
> >> I claim that any monistic ("scientific") theory that predict infinite
> >> many universes predict also infinite many minds with infinite many
> >> degrees of knowledge and mastering over their realities and the
> >> realities that they may create, that, assuming monistic materialism,
> >> can contain also other subordinate minds. Because we do not know our
> >> position in the hierarchy etc etc etc etc
> >>
> >> 2014-07-17 18:16 GMT+02:00, spudboy100 via Everything List
> >> <everything-list@googlegroups.com>:
> >>>
> >>> You cannot now claim, baring evidence, that we can change reality, even
> >>> here
> >>> on planet Earth, in a cogent way. It's like somebody falling off Mt.
> >>> Evidence, in which we can have an opinion about our dilemma, but
> >>> reversing
> >>> gravity or dreaming up a parachute to use during our fall is not part
> of
> >>> the
> >>> world we all must live in. Give 10,000 years of future technology, and
> >>> human
> >>> survival, maybe then.
> >>>
> >>> Any theory of everithing that implies infinite many unverses in
> >>> compatible with everithing. Gods, miracles, psicquism, telequinesia,
> >>> telepaty etc starting from the. monistic materialism, some
> >>> configurations of matter produce minds, thererfore under these
> >>> theories are infinite many variations of minds, not potentially. They
> >>> are logical predictions of these theories.
> >>>
> >>> These minds under monistic materialism are considered as matter that
> >>> can reshape matter in a complex way. Some of these minds can create
> >>> second level realities in which they may act as gods, either making
> >>> use of extraordinary knowledge of reality in relation with other less
> >>> advanced minds, for which they may appear as gods. or alternatively
> >>> they can simulate virtual realities in which accoding with monistic
> >>> materialism can simulate minds inside these second level simulated
> >>> realities.
> >>>
> >>> These superior minds are free to change the realities that they have
> >>> under partial control (in the first case) or under total control (in
> >>> the second). So they can perform miracles and so on and so on.
> >>>
> >>> We don´t know what is our level as minds in the multiverse, therefore
> >>> everithing is theoretically possible even under this monistic
> >>> hypothesis. Everithing goes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
> >>> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> >>> Sent: Thu, Jul 17, 2014 12:02 pm
> >>> Subject: Re: Atheist
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2014-07-17 10:31 GMT+02:00, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 17 Jul 2014, at 01:00, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The latest theories of everithing admit absolutely everithing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Which one? What do you mean by "absolutely everything"?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> are no longer materialistic. Either they are no-theories or they
> allow
> >>>>> any interpretation anyone may like about the know and unknow reality.
> >>>>
> >>>> I really don't know what theories you refer too.
> >>>
> >>> Any theory of everithing that implies infinite many unverses in
> >>> compatible with everithing. Gods, miracles, psicquism, telequinesia,
> >>> telepaty etc starting from the. monistic materialism, some
> >>> configurations of matter produce minds, thererfore under these
> >>> theories are infinite many variations of minds, not potentially. They
> >>> are logical predictions of these theories.
> >>>
> >>> These minds under monistic materialism are considered as matter that
> >>> can reshape matter in a complex way. Some of these minds can create
> >>> second level realities in which they may act as gods, either making
> >>> use of extraordinary knowledge of reality in relation with other less
> >>> advanced minds, for which they may appear as gods. or alternatively
> >>> they can simulate virtual realities in which accoding with monistic
> >>> materialism can simulate minds inside these second level simulated
> >>> realities.
> >>>
> >>> These superior minds are free to change the realities that they have
> >>> under partial control (in the first case) or under total control (in
> >>> the second). So they can perform miracles and so on and so on.
> >>>
> >>> We don´t know what is our level as minds in the multiverse, therefore
> >>> everithing is theoretically possible even under this monistic
> >>> hypothesis. Everithing goes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> In certain sense materialism has given up without being conscious of
> >>>>> it. That is because its foundation is metaphysical and metaphysics
> has
> >>>>> experimented a regression to the stone age, or at least to the level
> >>>>> previous to the greek phylosophy.
> >>>>
> >>>> That has begun since theology has been banished from academy, and
> >>>> replaced by a social sort of authorianism.
> >>>>
> >>>> It is normal for those wanting power to take over on the fundamental
> >>>> theories. It is bad and sad, but natural and usual. That's why we must
> >>>> be vigilant, and fight for a coming back to reason and observation in
> >>>> *all* fields, not just on God and health.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bruno
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2014-07-09 22:12 GMT+02:00, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>> I apologize for taking a new title for this over-discussed topic.
> >>>>>> Somebody (sounds like Bruno, the fonts look like Brent) wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "...let us do theology seriously instead of referring to fairy
> tales.
> >>>>>> You confirm what I said to John Clark. *Atheist* defend the God of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> bible. Read Plotinus, forget the bible, unless you find some passage
> >>>>>> you like and which inspire you, but that is private, don't make that
> >>>>>> public. "
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I refer to the generality about 'atheists' in the passage. I
> >>>>>> emphasize that I am no atheist in such a sense who IMO requires 'a
> >>>>>> god
> >>>>>> to deny' (my vocabulary includes the term as 'denying' instead of
> >>>>>> 'defending').
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I simply exclude those facets which are beyond our reach at present.
> >>>>>> In speaking about Everything I think of an infinite complexity of
> >>>>>> components we cannot even understand (today) - nor the relations
> >>>>>> between them ALL. We include SOME into our 'model of the world' as
> of
> >>>>>> yesterday without knowing if we are right.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In such sense even a (sane-minded) adilt can be an 'atheist'.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John M
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Alberto.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
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> >>>>
> >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Alberto.
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alberto.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alberto.
> >
>
>
> --
> Alberto.
>
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