What is the point in the last paragraphs written by me in which you do not agree?.
2014-07-18 18:57 GMT+02:00, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: > > On 18 Jul 2014, at 11:52, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > >> Thereforeeee... my dear friends atheists, agnostics and deists.... >> >> The salvation vessel of monistic materialism, the theories of >> everything that predict infinite many universes with infinite physical >> laws, either arithmetical or mathemathical, are compatible with any >> metaphisical or theological position: metaphysical dualism, >> monotheism, politheism etc >> >> in a sense these theories not only give zero information in physical >> terms but also in metaphysical terms. So we can say that they are >> perfect non-theories. > > > ? > > The question is: do you think possible that brains and bodies obeys > computable laws? > > If not, what is your theory of mind? > > If yes, then, the point I make is that there is no other alternatives > than to derive the physical laws from specific glueing conditions on > our computationally accessible consistent extensions. > > Contrary to what you say, this leads to a precise theory of mind, > including a theory of observable, which leads to experimentally > testable predications. > > You seem to not have studied neither UDA, nor AUDA. Both are develop > here, > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html > > or here: > > http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2013.03.014 > > and Kim sent to the list a typo and english corrected version of that > last publication. > > Ask any question if you have any difficulty. > > I am aware that it can be hard to understand for people who believes > "religiously" in a primitive physical universe, or in the Aristotelian > notion of primary matter. Thousands and thousands of excellent > publication on cannabis seems to take time to help people to > understand that the "big" danger of the cannabis was propaganda. For > the consequence of comp, we face worst, both 1500 years of propaganda, > and millions of years of implicit programming by nature and the > survival goal. > > So take it easy. I am not proposing a new theory. I just show that two > basic principles are incompatible: mechanism and materialism (UDA), > and that we can already interview (in a quite literal sense) machines > about this. > > > Bruno > > > >> >> 2014-07-17 19:07 GMT+02:00, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]>: >>> Why I have to claim that? >>> >>> I claim that any monistic ("scientific") theory that predict infinite >>> many universes predict also infinite many minds with infinite many >>> degrees of knowledge and mastering over their realities and the >>> realities that they may create, that, assuming monistic materialism, >>> can contain also other subordinate minds. Because we do not know our >>> position in the hierarchy etc etc etc etc >>> >>> 2014-07-17 18:16 GMT+02:00, spudboy100 via Everything List >>> <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> You cannot now claim, baring evidence, that we can change reality, >>>> even >>>> here >>>> on planet Earth, in a cogent way. It's like somebody falling off Mt. >>>> Evidence, in which we can have an opinion about our dilemma, but >>>> reversing >>>> gravity or dreaming up a parachute to use during our fall is not >>>> part of >>>> the >>>> world we all must live in. Give 10,000 years of future technology, >>>> and >>>> human >>>> survival, maybe then. >>>> >>>> Any theory of everithing that implies infinite many unverses in >>>> compatible with everithing. Gods, miracles, psicquism, telequinesia, >>>> telepaty etc starting from the. monistic materialism, some >>>> configurations of matter produce minds, thererfore under these >>>> theories are infinite many variations of minds, not potentially. >>>> They >>>> are logical predictions of these theories. >>>> >>>> These minds under monistic materialism are considered as matter that >>>> can reshape matter in a complex way. Some of these minds can create >>>> second level realities in which they may act as gods, either making >>>> use of extraordinary knowledge of reality in relation with other >>>> less >>>> advanced minds, for which they may appear as gods. or alternatively >>>> they can simulate virtual realities in which accoding with monistic >>>> materialism can simulate minds inside these second level simulated >>>> realities. >>>> >>>> These superior minds are free to change the realities that they have >>>> under partial control (in the first case) or under total control (in >>>> the second). So they can perform miracles and so on and so on. >>>> >>>> We don´t know what is our level as minds in the multiverse, >>>> therefore >>>> everithing is theoretically possible even under this monistic >>>> hypothesis. Everithing goes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >>>> To: everything-list <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Thu, Jul 17, 2014 12:02 pm >>>> Subject: Re: Atheist >>>> >>>> >>>> 2014-07-17 10:31 GMT+02:00, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>> On 17 Jul 2014, at 01:00, Alberto G. Corona wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The latest theories of everithing admit absolutely everithing. >>>>> >>>>> Which one? What do you mean by "absolutely everything"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> they >>>>>> are no longer materialistic. Either they are no-theories or they >>>>>> allow >>>>>> any interpretation anyone may like about the know and unknow >>>>>> reality. >>>>> >>>>> I really don't know what theories you refer too. >>>> >>>> Any theory of everithing that implies infinite many unverses in >>>> compatible with everithing. Gods, miracles, psicquism, telequinesia, >>>> telepaty etc starting from the. monistic materialism, some >>>> configurations of matter produce minds, thererfore under these >>>> theories are infinite many variations of minds, not potentially. >>>> They >>>> are logical predictions of these theories. >>>> >>>> These minds under monistic materialism are considered as matter that >>>> can reshape matter in a complex way. Some of these minds can create >>>> second level realities in which they may act as gods, either making >>>> use of extraordinary knowledge of reality in relation with other >>>> less >>>> advanced minds, for which they may appear as gods. or alternatively >>>> they can simulate virtual realities in which accoding with monistic >>>> materialism can simulate minds inside these second level simulated >>>> realities. >>>> >>>> These superior minds are free to change the realities that they have >>>> under partial control (in the first case) or under total control (in >>>> the second). So they can perform miracles and so on and so on. >>>> >>>> We don´t know what is our level as minds in the multiverse, >>>> therefore >>>> everithing is theoretically possible even under this monistic >>>> hypothesis. Everithing goes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> In certain sense materialism has given up without being >>>>>> conscious of >>>>>> it. That is because its foundation is metaphysical and >>>>>> metaphysics has >>>>>> experimented a regression to the stone age, or at least to the >>>>>> level >>>>>> previous to the greek phylosophy. >>>>> >>>>> That has begun since theology has been banished from academy, and >>>>> replaced by a social sort of authorianism. >>>>> >>>>> It is normal for those wanting power to take over on the >>>>> fundamental >>>>> theories. It is bad and sad, but natural and usual. That's why we >>>>> must >>>>> be vigilant, and fight for a coming back to reason and >>>>> observation in >>>>> *all* fields, not just on God and health. >>>>> >>>>> Bruno >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2014-07-09 22:12 GMT+02:00, John Mikes <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> I apologize for taking a new title for this over-discussed topic. >>>>>>> Somebody (sounds like Bruno, the fonts look like Brent) wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "...let us do theology seriously instead of referring to fairy >>>>>>> tales. >>>>>>> You confirm what I said to John Clark. *Atheist* defend the God >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> bible. Read Plotinus, forget the bible, unless you find some >>>>>>> passage >>>>>>> you like and which inspire you, but that is private, don't make >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> public. " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I refer to the generality about 'atheists' in the passage. I >>>>>>> emphasize that I am no atheist in such a sense who IMO requires >>>>>>> 'a >>>>>>> god >>>>>>> to deny' (my vocabulary includes the term as 'denying' instead of >>>>>>> 'defending'). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I simply exclude those facets which are beyond our reach at >>>>>>> present. >>>>>>> In speaking about Everything I think of an infinite complexity of >>>>>>> components we cannot even understand (today) - nor the relations >>>>>>> between them ALL. We include SOME into our 'model of the world' >>>>>>> as of >>>>>>> yesterday without knowing if we are right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In such sense even a (sane-minded) adilt can be an 'atheist'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John M >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> Google >>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>> "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an >>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything- >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Alberto. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything- >>>>>> list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups >>>>> "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send >>>>> an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> . >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alberto. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an >>>> email >>>> to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> . >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> . >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alberto. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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