On 8/3/2014 9:04 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Exactly what John Clark seems to miss, the first person after-experiences.
Oh yes, that's because John Clark is a Zombie.
> In both diaries, those who predicted 'no break of symmetry',
Who in hell predicted no break of symmetry? One will see Moscow and one will not, nobody
thinks that is symmetrical. If things were symmetrical there would only be one person
regardless of how many bodies there were; there needs to be a break in symmetry for the
concepts of "you" and "me" to be meaningful. You and I are two different people because
things are unsymmetrical, we both have memories that the other does not; In the thought
experiment things are a little more complicated because the Helsinki Man has no memories
that the Moscow Man (or Washington Man) does not, but the Moscow Man DOES have memories
the Helsinki Man does not, such as the memory of seeing Moscow.
Bruno seems to have a theory, based on his salvia experience, that a person can exist
independently of any memories. That's why he says things like, "We're all the same
person." I find this theory contrary to experience. I've had two relatives die of
Alzheimers and they certainly did not seem to be the same person as when they could
remember things.
Brent
> will write: "Why for God sake am I the one reconstituted in Moscow ?
To answer the question, "you" were reconstituted in Moscow because "you" saw Moscow and
the other fellow didn't, if you'd been reconstituted in Washington you'd be a different
"you". It's not as if "you" became the Moscow Man and there is some great cosmic mystery
as to why "you" then ended up in Moscow, it's the other way around, the very act of
seeing Moscow turned "you" into the Moscow Man. And there is no mystery in the Moscow
Man seeing Moscow, what the hell else is the Moscow Man supposed to see?
If you want a more detailed answer as to why you saw Moscow I'd have to start talking
about why the Helsinki Man (and you are the Helsinki Man even though the Helsinki Man is
not you) agreed to walk into the duplicating chamber in the first place. And I'd have to
start talking about the history of Moscow and why a city was built where it was and why
it took the shape it did. But I don't see how getting into that will bring any
philosophical enlightenment.
John K Clark
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