Hi all,
This is my reply to John Clark. You can skip toward the last paragraph
as it happens that the post ends with an exercise for everybody.
A test of your understanding of the First Person Indeterminacy (FPI).
It should not be difficult. It is the Exam Surprise of August :)
On 05 Aug 2014, at 18:27, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> the comp FPI is the simplest and strongest form of indeterminacy.
Well good for "comp" and good for the Foreign Policy Initiative.
> It does not need the quantum physics assumption
And quantum physics most assuredly does not need it!
Everett QM needs it.
> the real question is: do you accept that the indeterminacy on what
you (the H-guy) can expect
No I do not,
Could you quote the entire paragraph?
the question has a precise answer
Yes, you gave it in your preceding post. It was "I don't know", and
that is the FPI. We moved to step 4.
and does not require probability, but before I can give you that
precise answer I need to know what you mean by "the H-guy". Does it
mean:
1) John Clark?
2) The fellow currently experiencing Helsinki?
Now you regress again, and we will cycle. Just consult sane04, the
step 3 protocol is clear and has never change since the beginning.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html
3) The fellow currently experiencing Moscow?
This looks like a precision, but is not.
4) The fellow currently experiencing Washington?
5) Any of the copies who remembers experiencing Helsinki?
You have agreed enough about identity to say that comp entails we
survive teleportation. So, you know the answer.
We ask you, John Clark, and the question is asked to you some moment
before you push the button.
And yes, we know that you John Clark, will be in both city, after the
experience is completed. But this does not answer the question, which
is about what you expect your life will turn in. We know also, as we
assume comp, that it will not turn into "I have the superposed
experience of being in the two city at once". It can only be "I have
the feeling of being in a precise city x". x is not ambiguous, it is
undetermined before you push the button and open the door.
If it's #1 the answer is Moscow and Washington. If it's #2 the
answer is oblivion. If it's #3 the answer is Moscow. If it's #4 the
answer is Washington. If it's #5 the answer is Moscow and
Washington. So the moral is, ask me a precise question and be
careful with the ambiguous pronouns and I will give you a precise
answer without any need of probabilities.
I answer by an exercise for everybody.
You are on Earth, and you need, for some reason, to go urgently on
Mars. Bad luck, you can't really afford the 100% secure quantum
classical teleportation channel Earth-Mars, but you have enough money
to take a channel where it is known that the probability of
eavesdropping is 1/4.
Now there will be two questions, according to the fact that the
eavesdropping is destructive, or not.
The eavesdropping is destructive when Eve, the "pirate", intercepts
the message, and prevents it to attain Mars.
The eavesdropping is non-destructive when Eve intercepts the message,
copies it, and let it attain Mars.
In both question the probability of eavesdropping is 1/4, and it is
supposed that Eve reconstitutes you in Hell, or some bad place.
You are on Earth, just before pushing the button. How do you evaluate
your chance to find yourself in hell?
a) with a destructive eavesdropping?
b) with a non-destructive eavesdropping?
Bruno
John K Clark
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