On 19 Sep 2014, at 15:01, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Telmo,
Sorry but I cannot elaborate on how Bose-Einstein Condensates BECs
act as one particle.
It is just how they are described in the literature, yet is is also
said that BECs may contain vortices
But BECs have amazing properties.
At Harvard and probably elsewhere, they experimentally can slow down
and even stop the propagation of light.
And two separated BECs when entangled can share information.
Part of my conjecture is that the human brain may contain a BEC in
the micro-tubulins
whereas BECs normally only occur in the lab at very low temperatures
near absolute zero.
That would not change the consequence of computationalism, as BEC are
Turing emulable, unless you succeed in finding a non Turing emulable
hamiltonian in nature. The BEC we manage to produce are Turing emulable.
But we would be quantum computer, and have some prodigious ability.
Our descendant might buy BC-brains, but that's for tomorrow.
I read recently that the U of Minnesota researchers think that BECs
may appear in tubulins.
They have a long history of work with Helium as a super-fluid
and even in the 1970s found that propagating electrons
through such a super-fluid produced particles with 1/2 electron charge
something that was repeated once but is not yet understood
theoretically.
That is my next avenue to pursue once I get free of the chicks.
Well, take your time.
Squeezing electrons, Hall effects, quantum topological computer ...
that is the future, ...and the past, perhaps.
It is fascinating. Condensed matters is a very interesting fields.
Knot theory too.
BEC in Tubulin? I can certainly not exclude this, especially when
looking at protozoans, (but that might be due to my incompetence).
Bruno
Richard
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Telmo Menezes
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Richard,
In my papers I have conjectured that consciousness is a BEC effect
because apparently in a BEC of particles, for all these particles to
act as one, each particle must be aware of all others or at least
its nearest neighbors. If so, for consciousness to also be a
computation, then BECs must be computable, and I wonder if that is
true. But again, if so, then BEC computation selects the types of
computations necessary for consciousness.
I'm afraid I am too physically illiterate here, but could you
elaborate on how the particles act as one? Am I correct in assuming
that they have certain degrees of freedom, but all behave the same
without any further causality?
But I must admit I have been too lazy to pursue this possibility in
earnest. Rather nowadays I spend most of the day following free-
range baby chicks around. I find it interesting that I can watch
them closely but cannot touch them, just like in the human species.
Chicks are tricky, no matter the species :)
Telmo.
Richard
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Telmo Menezes
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:03 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 9/18/2014 4:20 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
> We have no way to measure or detect consciousness,
That certainly isn't true in my case, there is one particular
consciousness that I'm very very good at detecting, and although I
can't prove it I have a hunch there is one consciousness you can
detect too.
Right, but you can't propose an experiment that tests the claim
that you are conscious or that I am conscious to a third party.
I don't know what you do for a living, Telmo, but I sure hope you're
not an anesthesiologist.
I'm not, but I'm glad they exist.
Anaesthesia seems to shut down the brain's ability to perceive the
environment and to form memories. I have no contention with that. I
also have no contention with most of modern science, including (the
still very crude) field of neuroscience. I am sure the brain is an
asynchronous computer, that intelligence is a property of this
computer and so on.
The trouble is that none of this seems to explain how consciousness
originates. Maybe it's a still unknown property of matter. Maybe
matter itself is a dream of computations, like Bruno suggests. The
point is, we have no reason to prefer one explanation over the
other, they both fit the facts.
What disturbs me the most is our growing inability to say "I don't
know". I think I know where this comes from. Science has been under
attack by several brands of dark ages fundamentalism, so scientists
react by becoming more militant. This is a mistake. "Beware that,
when fighting monsters..."
Telmo.
Brent
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