On Friday, October 31, 2014 10:06:39 AM UTC+1, Kim Jones wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 31 Oct 2014, at 4:47 pm, John Clark <[email protected] <javascript:>>
> wrote:
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> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:23 AM, Kim Jones <[email protected]
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Agreement and disagreement are not aspects of real thinking.
>
>
> So if I assume you do real thinking then I must conclude that you don't
> agree with what you wrote above.
>
> John K Clark
>
>
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> Then your conclusion strikes me as facile in that you seek to find a
> logical contradiction as a way of invalidating my assertion. This is
> another item from your grab-bag of rhetorical tricks. There is no logical
> contradiction in my assertion. I neither agree with it nor disagree with
> it. I present it as an observation. You clearly saw a (negative) value in
> what I wrote because you have responded to what I wrote. If you saw no
> value in it then you would simply pass over it and ignore it. You are once
> again self-referentially incorrect (ie lying to yourself - something I
> never thought was actually possible but you demonstrate that it is possible
> to lie to yourself in this forum on virtually a daily basis.)
>
> In real thinking you can be "wrong" and as bloody-minded as often as you
> want as long as you are "right" in the end ie when the thinking process
> reaches its conclusion. Being "right in the end" means having an outcome
> that offers a value that everyone sees. That is not the same thing as
> winning an argument. Being wrong is creative. Many discussions here become
> bogged down in argument which is anything but creative.
>
> I don't do argument. Argument is based on the clash of opinion and
> values. Argument is rarely about what is ostensibly being argued because it
> is mainly powered by the values of those participating in the argument none
> of whom ever admit that this is really what is happening. That's not
> science. Science is about putting your personal prejudices, beliefs and
> convictions to one side as the topic is examined from a variety of
> viewpoints. You do argument all the time because it is the only way you
> have ever learnt to do thinking amongst a group of people.
>
This is why I don't care to engage John anymore for time being. In the
frame/level he forces you to engage in, I gladly "loose", because we're not
seeing eye to eye anyway, as competitive ego-bashing is nothing I care for:
I want to gain perspectives from discussion, not defend old familiar stuff
religiously. Conflict and difference in position, yes. But riding that out
and obsessing over the same stuff, no. I'll pass.
He is radical in his atheism to the extent that he obsesses and talks more
about god than most Christians I know. Similar for his game with "comp".
It's also clear he believes in reputation/status along with assuming an
obviousness and accessibility of truth to him.
Therefore he doesn't believe in defamation, because if your "true
reputation" (plus the prizes you have won which should belisted in
Wikipedia/Google of course) and the obvious/decidable truth content of your
posts hold, you may, as somebody on top of religiously fanatical hierarchy,
"shame others into correctness"; which doesn't mean "agree to disagree
while we go our ways", but instead constant barrage (which is simply spam
or bot behavior to many outside his theological outlook) and iteration of
the attacks, insults, mocking, and irrational repetition of linguistic
tricks and slights of hand, which he knew how to do since before he was
twelve.
So believing in impossibility of defamation, you can nitpick and insult
repetitively forever. You're on a religious mission to disseminate truth.
By now, it's so predictable how he will respond to the next answer of Bruno
regarding step 3 ("fumbling" the pronouns cheap shot, or "trivial beyond
belief"). He knows these lines of argument and understands them. Therefore
it is difficult to extend good faith in difference of positions. Like
religious radical he will continue to post this way with complete disregard
of whether what he is writing is true or not. He must scream/insult louder
and "win". Even if this takes forever.
I'm bored of this business. PGC
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