LizR wrote:
On 10 November 2014 16:01, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:LizR wrote: On 8 November 2014 16:53, John Clark <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:56 PM, meekerdb <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > I'd say that expansion of the universe is almost necessary,not contingent. I'd say that by about 1850 when people started to have aunderstanding of what Entropy was physicists had all they needed to have known that the universe must have started out in a very very low entropy state, that is to say they could have predicted the Big Bang in the early to mid 19th century; and they wouldn't have needed to go near a telescope to do so. But unfortunately they didn't, it's one of the great failures of nerve or imagination in the history of science. Another feature of the big bang / expanding universe is that it continually raises the entropy ceiling (maxium entropy that can exist in a given volume). I think you should stop saying this. It is not true. You have not defined what you mean by "maximum entropy" nor have you specified how that maximum is calculated. If the maximum is defined as when all available degrees of freedom are in thermal equilibrium, then the universe has never been in such a state of maximum entropy, and it probably will not be until all matter has collapsed into black holes and these have decayed by Hawking radiation.I'm dealing with classical thermodynamics, i.e. ignoring gravity and only talking about the arrangements of particles. I don't know how to incorporate gravity into the picture. If that makes what I'm suggesting inadmissible, fair enough.
It does. The physics of the BB is set by gravity, so one cannot sensibly consider conditions then without including gravity. Classical thermodynamics simple does not cut it.
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