> On 17 Nov 2014, at 11:02 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> On 16 Nov 2014, at 23:06, Kim Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 17 Nov 2014, at 4:53 am, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 16 Nov 2014, at 03:31, Kim Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if by now it's worth considering in information-theoretic terms
>>>> how the evolution of "academe" tends to result in universes in which most
>>>> and possibly all information becomes increasingly self-referential and
>>>> redundant ie uncreative. I don't know if the current "scandal" involving
>>>> the massive fraud in student assignments to which most Oz unis have turned
>>>> a blind eye - and presumably will continue to self-servingly turn a blind
>>>> eye - fascinates you, but I can't help thinking this kind of thing
>>>> necessarily results somehow. Has this ever happened before in history? I
>>>> mean, when before has an entire (usually non-anglo)
>>
>> I should perhaps have written "English as a second language students"
>>
>>
>>>> student cohort been able to get someone else to write their assignment,
>>>> pass their course - even though they might have difficulty sitting a basic
>>>> English test - and collect their degree? Is it the Anthropic Principle?
>>>> It's definitely inflation of one sort or another. The reason it's
>>>> inflation is because it introduces the incentive to keep pushing the
>>>> academic ceiling of "qualifiability" for this or that profession higher to
>>>> allow the universities to charge ever higher fees amongst a clearly openly
>>>> cheating student population. Maybe Darwin has the answer. But it also
>>>> means that a PhD is increasingly a meaningless bauble. It also means via
>>>> MWI that because it is possible it has already happened, therefore we
>>>> should acknowledge that at times throughout history there is a "brake"
>>>> applied to the anthropic gathering of knowledge by system-cheats.
>>>>
>>>> Question: in evolutionary terms, what is a "system-cheat"? Shouldn't we be
>>>> studying this more? There is a clear advantage in being one...
>>>
>>> Would you count the fact that some spider get disguised into ants to avoid
>>> some bird predator as a system-cheat, or a natural lies. It communicates
>>> the lies of the spider: "no, I am not that delicious spider dinner that you
>>> love so much, I am that disgusting unswallowable ants you would not eat
>>> even if getting paid". It works, the bird avoid them.
>>>
>>> Yes, the parts of the lies the creation is not known. Are we, as Löbian
>>> person, descendant of PA + consistent(PA), pr PA + non-consistent(PA)?
>>>
>>> Sometimes I tend to feel like those who believe in actual infinities might
>>> be descendent of PA + non-consistent PA.
>>>
>>> Eric Vandenbussche solved the problem of showing that[ PA +
>>> non-consistent(PA)] proves not just not more theorems than PA, (as is well
>>> known by logicians) but even more interesting problems, basically like PA +
>>> con(PA).
>>>
>>> Incompleteness entails, for the machines (and many non-machine reasonable
>>> extensions) a big gap between proof and truth, but this propagates at
>>> deeper (looking more concrete from inside) level, and being on the side of
>>> truth (that is of searching the truth) might be an handicap in real life.
>>> (Like in the physicists' "joke": a physicist looks anxious and sad, and
>>> his colleague ask him why. He answered that his best student was trying to
>>> understand quantum mechanics. The colleagues replied something like "I
>>> understand you, he is on a very slope if not finished. It is a joke which
>>> happened many times.
>>>
>>> In arithmetic There are many intermediate gods in between the machine and
>>> truth, and some are devils (falsities) which can nevertheless imitates God
>>> perfectly ... relatively to us. They make the measure problem more complex,
>>> especially near (relative) death.
>>>
>>> As a platonist-friendly, I still believe in the benefits of lies reduction,
>>> like I believe in the harm reduction philosophy in the health and risk
>>> domain.
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>
>> OK - but where we are talking about universities passing en masse students
>> who have not qualified to pass but rather paid someone else to do their
>> assignment work, a syndrome that has persisted for some time and which is
>> now openly acknowledged with a shrug of the shoulders?
>
> If it was only that .... It is just infinitely sad, and short term ranged.
>
>
>
>
>> What kind of values are in operation here? The degree of fraud now taken for
>> granted in the knowledge generation industry seems to be a genuine cause for
>> comcern. Who is more at fault?
>
> The prohibitionists. They have put bandits at each level of the society. They
> have the whole middle class into hostage.
But what here is being prohibited or 'banditised' with regard to education?
Unless this is the end to integrity in knowledge. I am identifying what I
believe is a massive social cause for concern, yet few seem to care.
Increasingly, you can gain your spurs at school and uni without actually doing
anything much at all; apart that is, from shelling out money to a slave army of
(usually Chinese-English language) hacks who will pull something academically
respectable-sounding out of their arse for a price on any subject.
There are many aspects to this. How long has this been going on? Surely with
this as a normative behaviour, all "research" ceases to be such and comes to be
self-similar regurgitation or simple language-troping. Language hacks do not
get paid to produce original ideas but to get someone through a course with the
maximum result for the minimum effort. Is this just the lowest
common-denominator behavioir of foreign students studying in a country where
they know the universities are all cash-strapped and that the academics have
all been told that the foreign students (who pay top dollar) should not be
denied their degrees? Or is it simply that easy to fake your way up the greasy
pole these days?
K
>
>
>
>> Those who cheat the system or the guardians of the system allowing it to be
>> rorted? In a system where everyone passes and no one fails, this is an easy
>> way to keep the academics employed and does seem the unspoken reason behind
>> this, particularly at a time when governments (at least in Australia) is
>> seeking to divest itself of the economic burden of funding of universities.
>> This is institutionalised dishonesty and surely compromises the integrity of
>> all academe. I don't hear too much weeping and wailing going on!
>
> Because once you apply this, you get dishonest people having the positions,
> and dishonest people rarely complain on their dishonesty.
>
> It makes me sick, but that's life. It will not end with the ending of
> prohibition, but it will end when it will be recognized that prohibition was
> an attempt by criminals to rule the world. We need an international trial,
> but that will take time. They use their power to distract us with wars and
> fake politics.
>
> The genuine terrorist states are all states in which cannabis is illegal,
> simply. There are still very few non-terrorist states. I know only Uruguay,
> Israel, Washington and Colorado.
> Portugal and Holland have depenalized cannabis, but they did not make it
> legal, which means that they accept to deal with the criminals directly. It
> is better FAPP, but the lie continues, and the power stays in the hand of the
> liars.
>
> Bruno
>
>>
>> Kim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kim Jones B. Mus. GDTL
>>>>
>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> Mobile: 0450 963 719
>>>> Phone: 02 93894239
>>>> Web: http://www.eportfolio.kmjcommp.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Never let your schooling get in the way of your education" - Mark Twain
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
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