On 22 Nov 2014, at 00:19, Kim Jones wrote:
On 17 Nov 2014, at 11:02 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
On 16 Nov 2014, at 23:06, Kim Jones wrote:
On 17 Nov 2014, at 4:53 am, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
On 16 Nov 2014, at 03:31, Kim Jones wrote:
I wonder if by now it's worth considering in information-
theoretic terms how the evolution of "academe" tends to result
in universes in which most and possibly all information becomes
increasingly self-referential and redundant ie uncreative. I
don't know if the current "scandal" involving the massive fraud
in student assignments to which most Oz unis have turned a blind
eye - and presumably will continue to self-servingly turn a
blind eye - fascinates you, but I can't help thinking this kind
of thing necessarily results somehow. Has this ever happened
before in history? I mean, when before has an entire (usually
non-anglo)
I should perhaps have written "English as a second language
students"
student cohort been able to get someone else to write their
assignment, pass their course - even though they might have
difficulty sitting a basic English test - and collect their
degree? Is it the Anthropic Principle? It's definitely inflation
of one sort or another. The reason it's inflation is because it
introduces the incentive to keep pushing the academic ceiling of
"qualifiability" for this or that profession higher to allow the
universities to charge ever higher fees amongst a clearly openly
cheating student population. Maybe Darwin has the answer. But it
also means that a PhD is increasingly a meaningless bauble. It
also means via MWI that because it is possible it has already
happened, therefore we should acknowledge that at times
throughout history there is a "brake" applied to the anthropic
gathering of knowledge by system-cheats.
Question: in evolutionary terms, what is a "system-cheat"?
Shouldn't we be studying this more? There is a clear advantage
in being one...
Would you count the fact that some spider get disguised into ants
to avoid some bird predator as a system-cheat, or a natural lies.
It communicates the lies of the spider: "no, I am not that
delicious spider dinner that you love so much, I am that
disgusting unswallowable ants you would not eat even if getting
paid". It works, the bird avoid them.
Yes, the parts of the lies the creation is not known. Are we, as
Löbian person, descendant of PA + consistent(PA), pr PA + non-
consistent(PA)?
Sometimes I tend to feel like those who believe in actual
infinities might be descendent of PA + non-consistent PA.
Eric Vandenbussche solved the problem of showing that[ PA + non-
consistent(PA)] proves not just not more theorems than PA, (as is
well known by logicians) but even more interesting problems,
basically like PA + con(PA).
Incompleteness entails, for the machines (and many non-machine
reasonable extensions) a big gap between proof and truth, but
this propagates at deeper (looking more concrete from inside)
level, and being on the side of truth (that is of searching the
truth) might be an handicap in real life.
(Like in the physicists' "joke": a physicist looks anxious and
sad, and his colleague ask him why. He answered that his best
student was trying to understand quantum mechanics. The
colleagues replied something like "I understand you, he is on a
very slope if not finished. It is a joke which happened many times.
In arithmetic There are many intermediate gods in between the
machine and truth, and some are devils (falsities) which can
nevertheless imitates God perfectly ... relatively to us. They
make the measure problem more complex, especially near (relative)
death.
As a platonist-friendly, I still believe in the benefits of lies
reduction, like I believe in the harm reduction philosophy in the
health and risk domain.
Bruno
OK - but where we are talking about universities passing en masse
students who have not qualified to pass but rather paid someone
else to do their assignment work, a syndrome that has persisted
for some time and which is now openly acknowledged with a shrug of
the shoulders?
If it was only that .... It is just infinitely sad, and short term
ranged.
What kind of values are in operation here? The degree of fraud now
taken for granted in the knowledge generation industry seems to be
a genuine cause for comcern. Who is more at fault?
The prohibitionists. They have put bandits at each level of the
society. They have the whole middle class into hostage.
But what here is being prohibited or 'banditised' with regard to
education?
Logic, statistics, thinking, etc. Once people lies on important things
at the top, the whole education is jeopardized, because if we were
teaching logic to students, they would not fall in the trap of the
liars so easily.
Unless this is the end to integrity in knowledge.
It is just a peak in the obscurity which result of the fact that the
enlighment has concern only the "exact science", not the human sciences.
In the human science, integrity of knowledge has never appeared,
except with some intellectual in Greek and India at some period.
I am identifying what I believe is a massive social cause for
concern, yet few seem to care.
Those who cares are typically eliminated, or silenced in one way or
another.
Increasingly, you can gain your spurs at school and uni without
actually doing anything much at all; apart that is, from shelling
out money to a slave army of (usually Chinese-English language)
hacks who will pull something academically respectable-sounding out
of their arse for a price on any subject.
You need only to assess the two fundamental principles:
The boss is always right.
The boss is always right.
You must leak shoes, become members of the right club, etc.
With varying degrees.
There are many aspects to this. How long has this been going on?
Since always, with varying degrees, and some period can be more lucky
than others.
The problem is that in any working society, you get a point where you
can multiply a lot the benefices by lying. The humans cannot resist
long to this. Even evolution: lying is a good local strategy to
survive for an individual, but it is destructive for the group in the
longer run.
Surely with this as a normative behaviour, all "research" ceases to
be such and comes to be self-similar regurgitation or simple
language-troping. Language hacks do not get paid to produce original
ideas but to get someone through a course with the maximum result
for the minimum effort. Is this just the lowest common-denominator
behavioir of foreign students studying in a country where they know
the universities are all cash-strapped and that the academics have
all been told that the foreign students (who pay top dollar) should
not be denied their degrees? Or is it simply that easy to fake your
way up the greasy pole these days?
It is easy for the people who are not really interested in a subject,
but only in names, fame, money, etc.
Bruno
K
Those who cheat the system or the guardians of the system allowing
it to be rorted? In a system where everyone passes and no one
fails, this is an easy way to keep the academics employed and does
seem the unspoken reason behind this, particularly at a time when
governments (at least in Australia) is seeking to divest itself of
the economic burden of funding of universities. This is
institutionalised dishonesty and surely compromises the integrity
of all academe. I don't hear too much weeping and wailing going on!
Because once you apply this, you get dishonest people having the
positions, and dishonest people rarely complain on their dishonesty.
It makes me sick, but that's life. It will not end with the ending
of prohibition, but it will end when it will be recognized that
prohibition was an attempt by criminals to rule the world. We need
an international trial, but that will take time. They use their
power to distract us with wars and fake politics.
The genuine terrorist states are all states in which cannabis is
illegal, simply. There are still very few non-terrorist states. I
know only Uruguay, Israel, Washington and Colorado.
Portugal and Holland have depenalized cannabis, but they did not
make it legal, which means that they accept to deal with the
criminals directly. It is better FAPP, but the lie continues, and
the power stays in the hand of the liars.
Bruno
Kim
Kim Jones B. Mus. GDTL
Email: [email protected]
[email protected]
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"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education" -
Mark Twain
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