From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of LizR
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 7:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.
On 3 December 2014 at 16:29, <[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:45:57 AM UTC, Liz R wrote:
For some reason a lot of religious people attempt to argue that Darwin was
wrong, just as a lot of people seem to have always wanted to show that Einstein
was wrong. There appears to be something about these targets that attracts a
certain type of person, even though there might be better pickings to be had
objecting to the big bang or quantum theory from the point of view of scoring
points for the worldview being pushed. After all, the Bible (for example) says
that God made the Heavens and the Earth (and the rest of the universe gets a
throwaway line), so why object specifically to evolution rather than, say,
theories of planetary formation?
I'd guess because...
1. people take it personally that their ancestors were simpler creatures.
2. it's a target they can sort of, more or less, understand, even if they can't
really.
(I have a feeling people object to Einstein's theories because they don't like
the idea of being browbeaten by Jewish intellectuals...)
I can't disagree for the simple reason creationist nut over-representation on
Darwin and anti-Semite over representation on Einstein is fait accompli pretty
much the same regardess which one of us is right. If you are right, then
....well you say they are over-represented, and this is the case you are right,
so...there they are!
On the other hand if I'm right and these are two areas that have seen periods
of large discouragement and disincentive to 'look there'. Well then, by
consequence of that, all the genuine truth seekers never showed up at all. And
the consequence of that is that the people that did show up are going to be
religious nut and anti-Semite over-represented.
So we have to go to the details Liz, and bring in other exhibits supporting our
case.
My Exhibit A is: Richard Feynman hasn't received anti-semitically motivated
criticism at anything like the levels you imply for Einstein. Yet for a large
number of people he's up there at the very top table of great scientific
genius. He has also received a huge amount of dissent and criticism. No one
says that is anti-Semitic. And by and large (I think) it's been dispelled.
See point 2. Theories have to be more or less understandable before the cranks
start attacking them. So "we evolved from apes" and "you can't travel faster
than light" are far easier targets than summing over histories and absorber
theory and so on.
Exhibit B is hugely disproportionate 25% of Nobels. A lot of big names there
and all have received criticism yet none apparent involving dramatical levels
of anti-Semitism.
Exhibit C:
It's not about the theories with Einstein. It's about whether he took other
peoples ideas. You are aware Hilbert published the complete field equations 5
days before Einstein? You are aware every single character of the 1905 paper
bar one, appears in papers in 1904, 1903 and further back. Einstein claimed he
never read them. Late in life he tacitly conceded he did. And his two close
friends later went on record they all been there and they pored over those
papers for weeks.
Those are legitimate reasons to doubt Einstein.
>>Those are not the sort of reasons people wheel out when they attack
>>relativity (generally special) or evolution. They claim to have spotted a
>>flaw everyone else missed, approaching it from a very pop-sci viewpoint.
Liz, I am with you here that evolution and e=mc2 make for highly visible, honey
pots tempting all manner of oddball, legend-in-their-minds geniuses (or the
pious pompous religious sort for the league of Darwin haters). I also agree
that the tactic used is similar – spotting the overlooked flaw etc. However, I
do not see the reason or need to invoke anti-Semitism – in Einstein’s case, as
being the main driver. Sure some of his detractors are driven by the racist
impulse, controlling their illing minds, but most – in my experience – seem to
be ultimately harmless sorts, even if, often they are obnoxious, socially
retarded bores.
-Chris
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