On Monday, December 22, 2014, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > > > On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> John Clark wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett <[email protected] >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >An instinct for self-preservation is unrelated to whether or >>>> not >>>> you have a fear of death, or of oblivion >>>> >>>> Unrelated?? Don't be ridiculous! Why the hell do you imagine >>>> Evolution >>>> invented the fear of death in the first place? >>>> >>>> >>>> Evolution did not "invent a fear of death". That is purely cultural, >>>> and is not even associated with consciousness -- it comes only with >>>> self-awareness and an inner narrative. Evolution gave living things >>>> an instinct for self-preservation. But you can have such an instinct >>>> operating healthily and still not fear death. Fear of death probably >>>> comes from a fear of the unknown, and is linked to the fear of >>>> prolonged suffering. But oblivion is oblivion -- it is not something >>>> to be feared because no-one has ever experienced it, or can ever >>>> experience it. >>>> >>>> >>>> Following that reasoning, do you believe there is nothing wrong with >>>> murder? >>>> >>> >>> How on earth did you get that from what I said? >>> >> >> If there's nothing wrong with oblivion, and murder leads to oblivion, >> then there's nothing wrong with murder. >> >> >> There's nothing wrong with having a lot of money, and bank robbery leads >> to having a lot of money, then there's nothing wrong with bank robbery. >> > > Yes, but I did qualify it in a subsequent email with "unless you can think > of a worse effect [than oblivion] of murder". > > You could have a go at thinking of a worse effect: > > Murder is bad because it breaks God's commandment - but then it would not > be bad if if you didn't believe in God. > > Murder is bad because it causes suffering in the person being murdered - > but then it would not be bad if you could murder someone without causing > suffering, for example by killing them quickly in their sleep. > > Murder is bad because of the loss felt by the family and friends of the > victim - but then it wouldn't be bad if you murdered a homeless person whom > nobody would miss. > > Murder is bad because life is a sacred gift! Even a homeless person > deserves to live his/her life. Who knows, the homeless person may be > happier than someone living in a palace. > Samiya > > What if life were not a sacred gift, but a phenomenon in a godless universe with no meaning outside of itself? Would murder be OK then? -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
