> On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:38 am, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On Monday, December 22, 2014, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> On 22-Dec-2014, at 11:20 am, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Monday, 22 December 2014, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> On 12/21/2014 5:09 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, December 22, 2014, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John Clark wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 , Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >An instinct for self-preservation is unrelated to whether or >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> you have a fear of death, or of oblivion >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unrelated?? Don't be ridiculous! Why the hell do you imagine >>>>>>> Evolution >>>>>>> invented the fear of death in the first place? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Evolution did not "invent a fear of death". That is purely cultural, >>>>>>> and is not even associated with consciousness -- it comes >>>>>>> only with >>>>>>> self-awareness and an inner narrative. Evolution gave living things >>>>>>> an instinct for self-preservation. But you can have such an instinct >>>>>>> operating healthily and still not fear death. Fear of death probably >>>>>>> comes from a fear of the unknown, and is linked to the fear of >>>>>>> prolonged suffering. But oblivion is oblivion -- it is not something >>>>>>> to be feared because no-one has ever experienced it, or can ever >>>>>>> experience it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Following that reasoning, do you believe there is nothing wrong with >>>>>>> murder? >>>>>> >>>>>> How on earth did you get that from what I said? >>>>> >>>>> If there's nothing wrong with oblivion, and murder leads to oblivion, >>>>> then there's nothing wrong with murder. >>>> >>>> There's nothing wrong with having a lot of money, and bank robbery leads >>>> to having a lot of money, then there's nothing wrong with bank robbery. >>> >>> Yes, but I did qualify it in a subsequent email with "unless you can think >>> of a worse effect [than oblivion] of murder". >>> >>> You could have a go at thinking of a worse effect: >>> >>> Murder is bad because it breaks God's commandment - but then it would not >>> be bad if if you didn't believe in God. >>> >>> Murder is bad because it causes suffering in the person being murdered - >>> but then it would not be bad if you could murder someone without causing >>> suffering, for example by killing them quickly in their sleep. >>> >>> Murder is bad because of the loss felt by the family and friends of the >>> victim - but then it wouldn't be bad if you murdered a homeless person whom >>> nobody would miss. >> Murder is bad because life is a sacred gift! Even a homeless person deserves >> to live his/her life. Who knows, the homeless person may be happier than >> someone living in a palace. >> Samiya > What if life were not a sacred gift, but a phenomenon in a godless universe > with no meaning outside of itself? Would murder be OK then? > No. Life is still precious to each individual, and an irreplaceable loss in this world, even if there are other worlds we could be alive in or move on to. Samiya
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