On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 2:52:34 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:48 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < > [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> >> On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 12:27:06 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:11 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Roger, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question for you. >>>>> >>>>> Do you believe the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of Pi has a >>>>> certain definite value, which is either 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9? >>>>> >>>>> If so, would you still believe this if you knew that this number is >>>>> too difficult to ever compute by anyone in this universe? >>>>> >>>>> Does this not point to a discontinuity between mathematical truth and >>>>> conceivably of that truth by us limited creatures with limited minds in a >>>>> limited universe? Perhaps it does take faith to believe that digit takes >>>>> a >>>>> certain value between 0 and 9, but it's easier for me to accept that on >>>>> faith than the converse (that it is not any one of those digits). >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Jason, >>>> >>>> What I believe is that there is no proposition outside a mind/head >>>> that relates a circle's circumference and its diameter to get a number >>>> called pi. >>>> >>> >>> But that wasn't my question. Do you think that that the digit has a >>> certain definite value (despite not being known by any human) or perhaps >>> any being in this physical universe? Let's work by steps, do you think the >>> 10^1th digit has a definite value? Do you think the 10^6th digit has a >>> certain definite value? Do you think the 10^Nth digit has a definite value >>> (for any given N)) ? >>> >>> >>> >>>> What I think does exist is: >>>> >>>> o A circle could exist either outside the mind or inside the mind/head >>>> as the mental construct labeled "a circle". >>>> >>>> o It takes a mind to come up with a proposition that says that if you >>>> divide the circumference of a circle by its diameter, you get pi, and that >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of this pi is one of the numbers from >>>> 0-9. >>>> >>> >>> Do you believe that *one and only one* of the following statements is >>> true? >>> >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 0 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 1 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 2 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 3 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 4 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 5 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 6 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 7 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 8 >>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 9 >>> >>> Either you answer yes, or no to that question. If you answer yes, I >>> don't see how you can escape mathematical realism. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >> Jason, >> >> I believe the following: >> >> o I do believe that the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi is either >> 0-9. >> > > Yet no mind has conceived what it is. It exists and yet it exists outside > the mind of any person, which seems counter to your clams below. > > >> >> o That 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi and its value of 0-9 exists >> only in the mind of the person where the proposition defining pi exists. >> > > So does defining what Pi is lead to the existence of all of its infinite > digits, even if those digits are never considered by a conscious mind? > > If a conscious mind can reify other things it doesn't concevie why does > any mind need to reify the first concept (of pi) at all? >
Roger: Even if no mind has yet conceived the the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi, the pi proposition and therefore the process of calculating its 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point and being confident that if you do the process that that number is either 0-9 are all located inside the mind/head. My view is that whenever we talk about something existing, we have to specify where and when it exists, that is, in what context or domain it exists. A thing can exist in one place and not another. A ball can exist outside the head, and a mental construct labeled "the concept of a ball" can exist inside the head. So, if the pi process were carried out inside the mind/head long enough to figure out the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point, that mental construct for that number (which would be 0-9) would exist inside the mind/head but not outside the mind/head. So, the mind is able to reify things (like the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi) so that they exist but so that they only exist inside the mind/head and not outside the mind/head. > > >> >> o That 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi does not exist outside the >> mind of the person where the proposition defining pi is. >> >> I also believe that the above was easily deducible from my first >> reply >> > > Do you see how the above sentence can be construed as condescending? > > >> and that there's no need to be condescending (Your "Let's work by >> steps"). >> > > I did not intend to be condescendin, I only sought greater clarification > because your original post did not directly address my question. Breaking a > complex problem into steps can isolate where the disagreement (if any) > exists. > > Jason > Roger: Agreed. >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>> So, this proposition and its value as true or false only exists inside >>>> a mind/head even if it describes a circle that's outside the mind. >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
