On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 3:04 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 2:52:34 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:48 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 12:27:06 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:11 PM, 'Roger' via Everything List < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Roger, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a question for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you believe the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of Pi has a >>>>>> certain definite value, which is either 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9? >>>>>> >>>>>> If so, would you still believe this if you knew that this number is >>>>>> too difficult to ever compute by anyone in this universe? >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this not point to a discontinuity between mathematical truth and >>>>>> conceivably of that truth by us limited creatures with limited minds in a >>>>>> limited universe? Perhaps it does take faith to believe that digit takes >>>>>> a >>>>>> certain value between 0 and 9, but it's easier for me to accept that on >>>>>> faith than the converse (that it is not any one of those digits). >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Jason, >>>>> >>>>> What I believe is that there is no proposition outside a mind/head >>>>> that relates a circle's circumference and its diameter to get a number >>>>> called pi. >>>>> >>>> >>>> But that wasn't my question. Do you think that that the digit has a >>>> certain definite value (despite not being known by any human) or perhaps >>>> any being in this physical universe? Let's work by steps, do you think the >>>> 10^1th digit has a definite value? Do you think the 10^6th digit has a >>>> certain definite value? Do you think the 10^Nth digit has a definite value >>>> (for any given N)) ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> What I think does exist is: >>>>> >>>>> o A circle could exist either outside the mind or inside the mind/head >>>>> as the mental construct labeled "a circle". >>>>> >>>>> o It takes a mind to come up with a proposition that says that if you >>>>> divide the circumference of a circle by its diameter, you get pi, and that >>>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of this pi is one of the numbers from >>>>> 0-9. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Do you believe that *one and only one* of the following statements is >>>> true? >>>> >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 0 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 1 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 2 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 3 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 4 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 5 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 6 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 7 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 8 >>>> the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal digit of pi is 9 >>>> >>>> Either you answer yes, or no to that question. If you answer yes, I >>>> don't see how you can escape mathematical realism. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>> Jason, >>> >>> I believe the following: >>> >>> o I do believe that the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi is either >>> 0-9. >>> >> >> Yet no mind has conceived what it is. It exists and yet it exists outside >> the mind of any person, which seems counter to your clams below. >> > >> >>> >>> o That 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi and its value of 0-9 >>> exists only in the mind of the person where the proposition defining pi >>> exists. >>> >> >> So does defining what Pi is lead to the existence of all of its infinite >> digits, even if those digits are never considered by a conscious mind? >> >> If a conscious mind can reify other things it doesn't concevie why does >> any mind need to reify the first concept (of pi) at all? >> > > Roger: Even if no mind has yet conceived the the 10^(10^(10^100))th > decimal point of pi, the pi proposition and therefore the process of > calculating its 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point and being confident that > if you do the process that that number is either 0-9 are all located inside > the mind/head. My view is that whenever we talk about something existing, > we have to specify where and when it exists, that is, in what context or > domain it exists. A thing can exist in one place and not another. A ball > can exist outside the head, and a mental construct labeled "the concept of > a ball" can exist inside the head. > If a ball can exist outside the mind/head, why can't the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi exist outside the mind/head? What property must a thing have to have an independent existence outside of any mind? (according to your theory?) Jason > So, if the pi process were carried out inside the mind/head long enough to > figure out the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point, that mental construct for > that number (which would be 0-9) would exist inside the mind/head but not > outside the mind/head. So, the mind is able to reify things (like the > 10^(10^(10^100))th > decimal point of pi) so that they exist but so that they only exist inside > the mind/head and not outside the mind/head. > >> >> >>> >>> o That 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi does not exist outside the >>> mind of the person where the proposition defining pi is. >>> >>> I also believe that the above was easily deducible from my first >>> reply >>> >> >> Do you see how the above sentence can be construed as condescending? >> >> >>> and that there's no need to be condescending (Your "Let's work by >>> steps"). >>> >> >> I did not intend to be condescendin, I only sought greater clarification >> because your original post did not directly address my question. Breaking a >> complex problem into steps can isolate where the disagreement (if any) >> exists. >> >> Jason >> > > Roger: Agreed. > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> So, this proposition and its value as true or false only exists >>>>> inside a mind/head even if it describes a circle that's outside the mind. >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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