On 20 Jan 2015, at 02:31, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> The question is not if God exists or not. But if
God = the physical universe?
God = a mathematical structure? Which one?
God = a dream by a universal machine?
God = a sum on all dreams by all universal machines?
God = the one who lost itself in a labyrinth of dreams?
God = the one who plays hide and seek with Itself?
God = the universal person?
God = the universal person completions? (if that exists)
God = Allah?
God = Jesus?
God = Krishna?
God = my tax collector?
God = the one who made the cat in its own image, and then made the
humans to gives the vat the modern comfort, with TV nad bag of
catnip?
etc.
>> If you're correct about that, and I think you are, and it could
mean a tax collector or the mathematical universe or anything in
between then the word "God" has exactly ZERO information content
and writing about "God" accomplishes nothing except cause excessive
wear and tear on the O D and G keys on your computer.
And yet some people still insist on using the word. Go figure.
> That would be the case if God was defined by the disjunction above.
You wrote that disjunction not me.
> But God was defined by "roots of the physical, psychological and
spiritual reality".
That certainly is NOT the definition of God used by people who carve
statues, or perform sacrifices or say prayers or built churches or
mosques or temples. I very much doubt that the person who carved the
Venus of Willendorf in 30000 BC or the Venus of Hohle Fels in 40000
BC was thinking about the "roots of the physical, psychological and
spiritual reality"; I believe all these people were thinking about a
*PERSON* who is vastly more powerful than themselves who can get
things done for them it you ask that *PERSON* in just the right way.
I use God in the sense of the platonist, who introduced the field of
inquiry "theology". It is explained in Plato's Parmenides, and is the
base of the so called Neoplatonism. It can be related with the god of
the philosophers. it generalize the sense of the fairy tales God, with
the fairy tale and superstition threw away, as we do when we do
science. In all case God is by definition the origin of things.
Science always simplifies maximally the notion, to ease the proof.
And I still don't understand what you mean by "spiritual reality"
and "physical reality" and the examples you gave don't have any
logical consistency as far as I can tell.
?
It is not clear if mathematics is the root of physics or physics is
the root of mathematics.
Because you stop at step 3. You would be able to understand that
computationalism makes physical reality an aspect of the arithmetical
reality. That is the point of the UDA, which you pretend having
refutated, but nobody has been able to understand your "argument".
I know for a fact that the idea of the sun exists and I can tell you
lots of specific things about the idea of the sun, and use those
ideas to generate yet more ideas about the sun, that seems pretty
down to earth concrete and physical to me.
Concrete? You said abstract the other day. You describe the
aristotelian intuition, but with computationalism and quantum
mechanics, we are lead to question this intuition.
All I know about is ideas and ideas are information and I would say
that information is physical, but you would call it abstract and non-
physical, in contrast I can say virtually nothing about the sun
itself but you would say that was physical and non-abstract.
I use the terms in the common sense. Physics is about predicting
measurable numbers, in a 3p or 1p-plural way. It involves sharable
measuring apparatus. Mathematics is about mathematical objects, like
numbers and functions, with or without applications a priori to the
physical reality or the observable.
The theory of everything is Robinson Arithmetic (RA). It does not
assume any physical things, and explains exactly what physics is.
Bruno
PS I have to go, and will answer other posts this evening, or tomorrow.
John K Clark
l
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