RE: Fw: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness--

Fri, 20 Mar 2015 10:07:34 -0700 

 

 

From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Quentin Anciaux
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 2:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fw: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

 

 

 

2015-03-19 23:44 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 
<[email protected]>:

 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Kim Jones <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

 

 

>>Clark is that desperate order of human whose only creative ability lies in 
>>shitting on the thinking of others. He is quite simply bereft of any thinking 
>>of his own and has clearly never once in gis life experienced a creative idea 
>>- even by accident. He is therefore exists only as a parasite on the back of 
>>others since he lacks the means to exist as a thinker in his own right. 

 

Come on now, you do not have that kind of insight into the mind of John, to be 
able to make the slew of assertions, you just made about him; 

 

Well, there is one true fact, he lies, that's simple to check... two emails 
before he's asserting that Bruno is affraid of intelligent machine... it's not 
the first lie he does, not the last one he will, it's an habit... it's bad 
faith in its purest form... while letting him lie and say nothing ? He will 
*never* apologize about his lies (he never did for years, it's doubtful he will 
one day), that's shameful, he does not deserve respect for that.

 

Sure that may be true, but he would not be the first nor certainly the last to 
do so. People lie all the time. And some people find it exceedingly difficult 
to admit they are wrong about something. John and I have had some very heated 
exchanges so I know what you are speaking of, but it makes me uncomfortable to 
see people psychoanalyzed by other people who smugly define and hang out to 
dry, the inner core of their being. I find such kinds of gratuitous pop 
psychoanalysis as being an exercise in conceited arrogance and one that is 
destructive in nature and intent. I do not see the kind of pop psychoanalysis 
that I was responding to as being anything more than a form of insult. He 
intent is not to help John in any manner; it is to insult the man as well as to 
make the person – giving the free unsolicited pop psychoanalysis  -- feel 
smugly superior.

 

This would be my opinion regardless of who it was who was being psychologically 
dissected in a public forum. I find this kind of public attack on a person by 
another person on a public forum to sink into the region of gratuitous 
nastiness. Speaking of some person’s alleged psychological and moral 
deficiencies, in the third person and in a public forum is nothing more than an 
ugly insult.

 

I am stating quite clearly and unambiguously that – IMO – it is a small minded 
act that itself is as ugly as anything it purports to describe. Kim may feel 
she has some brilliant insight into the inner working of John Clark’s soul, but 
she doesn’t… and her dissection of his inner character is an act of poor taste 
and -- IMO -- deserves to be called out for being what it is. 

 

Come on, we can do better than that!

-Chris

 

Quentin

 

 

about how and who he is.  As everyone knows -- me and John have had it out on 
this list on several occasions and there are many things with which we do not 
agree in the slightest (though on some matters we seem to be in accord). John 
and I have insulted each other with gusto... no one can accuse me of being a 
John Clark fanboy.

Every human being is a flawed outcome of experiences and inner development; we 
all have our own failings and blemishes; pronouncing judgement on others is a 
risky business -- in the best of cases. As has been said (probably many times 
by many people in many cultures throughout the ages: Judge not; lest you be 
judged.

-Chris

 

 

I predict that the day Clark actually proposes something new and insightful as 
opposed to merely criticising others attempts to do so will never occur. This 
is because once you have defined yourself publicly as a liar, the only way 
forward is to maintain the fictions you mistakenly outed - even after you and 
everyone have seen through them. 

 

Kim Jones

 

 


On 20 Mar 2015, at 7:20 am, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:

 

On 18 Mar 2015, at 18:07, Quentin Anciaux wrote:





Liar Clark seriously ? you wanna go down that way, asserting Bruno is affraid 
of machine intelligence where all is work is about computationalism ? really ?

 

I am glad you notice the anomaly. It looks like a lie, indeed.

 





 

It's so pathetic, 

 

Yes. I wonder why he acts like that. How much conscious he is. Is it 
incompetence or malice?

 

At least John acts in front of me. My usual opponents lied too, but behind my 
back.

 

It comforts me somehow to hear those lies. It shows the problem is not my work, 
but in the difficulty that some people have with fundamental question, on which 
they have already their religion.

 

I still don't know if John Clark is aware of its aristotelian prejudices. But 
may be it is lower than that, and it could be the usual jealousy or something. 
Presenting me as against machine intelligence is frankly incredible, and very 
low, as you say.

 

Bruno

 

 





I don't understand why you can stoop so low and lie so much against him... Is 
he threatening you ? maybe because even competent is not an adjective we should 
use with you.

 

 





 

Quentin

 

2015-03-18 17:57 GMT+01:00 John Clark <[email protected]>:

 

 

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015  Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:

>> So, consciousness - evolutionary advantage or spandrell? 

 

> Both. I would say.

 

Then the Turing Test works for consciousness and not just for intelligence. But 
then you don't believe the Turing Test even works for intelligence because you 
believe that the ability to do intelligent things has nothing to do with being 
intelligent, an idea so breathtakingly silly nobody would dream of uttering it 
unless they were driven to do so by their fear of intelligent machines. I guess 
"competent machines" sounds less threatening to you.

 

  John K Clark    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

 

 

 

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Hauer)

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