On 5/8/2015 1:00 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2015-05-08 8:39 GMT+02:00 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>:
On 5/7/2015 11:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
If the string of bits is all that is required for conscious, then the cable
connected to the camera, or the optic nerve would be visually conscious.
But I
think those bits need to be interpreted, by the Mars Rover's software, or
by the
visual cortex, for there to be visual quaila.
You know they have been so interpreted when the Rover maneuvers around the
rock it saw.
Yes, but that's the software that does the interpretation... we did write the software
in a way that when it read such or such data, it means in its context, it's a rock.
Not necessarily. Maybe the advanced AI computer on the Mars Rover is a wetware neural net
that we evolved in simulations before putting it in the Rover and it has learned about rocks.
If there is no interpreter, no software, there is no meaning... But the software
interprets what has context to it... that meaning is an internal notion, that does not
preclude the absolute real realness outside the interpretation itself... Programs have
only access to memory...
No, that's the point. Programs that can actually appear intelligent and so either be
conscious or prove that philosophical zombies exist (which most people reject) also
interact with the environment. I think you have and overly restrictive idea of program vs
memory, the two are fungible there's no sharp difference. You can compute by where your
program chooses to store bits.
For conscious program you should have stable "inputs", so the memory locations where the
program "interact" with an inferred external world, must be stable enough to look like
an external world...
But not so stable it doesn't change with new information. Human brains have a different
model of the world than they did 400yrs ago, and I have a different model of what's in my
garage than I did 15min ago.
that's enough to infer its existence and believe that from its POV it must be embedded
in something bigger... platonia is bigger... way bigger than needed, that's why there
should be a measure that explain the stability we see (again that's if and only if we
are computational entities at the start... ie: if computationalism is true...)
I agree.
To be useful, there must be a tractable way (practical)
Computable?
that this measure could be extracted and compared to the world we experience... if not,
even if conceptually it seems the best about consciousness and our real, it will stay as
an in principle. The falsifiability must be able to be tested in practice... if not, I
hardly see how one can say the theory is falsifiable.
That's more or less what I've been saying. The theory may be true but (almost) useless.
It may be that finding the right measure to extract physics from the UD is like finding
the "one time pad" for decoding the world. The argument leads one away from this because
it assumes that consciousness can be this isolated process. That's why the MGA starts
with assuming the consciousness is consciousness of a dream...to avoid the external
references of the brain states. But the references are there anyway even if they're not
from immediate perception.
I qualified that as "almost" useless, because it may explicate something about the
mind-body problem even if we can't decode the measure.
Brent
Quentin
Brent
The bits alone are not enough. Otherwise sqrt(2) or Pi might as well be
theories of
everything.
Jason
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 1:19 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:
On 5/7/2015 11:10 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Recordings, absent interpretation, are devoid of meaning and don't
exist for
anyone (like the unheard tree fall). Absent interpretation any string
of bits
is meaningless because depending on how it is interpreted it could mean
anything (see "one time pad" encryption). Consciousness requires both
information and something to be informed,
"Something to be informed" is just a ghost in the machine. All that's
required
is that the information, the string of bits, refer to something,
something that
can be interacted with. This is easily seen in my favorite example of
the AI
Mars Rover. The string of bits represents "There's a big rock in front of
me"
because it leads to maneuvering around the rock.
Brent
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