On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Russell Standish <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well as people probably know, I don't believe C. elegans can be > conscious in any sense of the word. Hell - I have strong doubts about > ants, and they're massively more complex creatures. > > But it probably won't be long before we simulate a mouse brain in toto > - about 2 decades is my guess, maybe even less given enough dollars - > then we're definitely in grey philosophical territory :). > Nematode brain - 10^3 neurons (302) Fruit fly brain - 10^5 neurons (65,000) Mouse brain - 10^7 neurons (10,000,000) Cat brain - 10^9 neurons (1,000,000,000) Human brain - 10^11 neurons (87,000,000,000) There's roughly a 100x increase in number of neurons, scaling from the nematode to the fruit fly, to the mouse, cat, and then human. If efficiency and power of computers for a given cost continue to double, then what it costs now to simulate a nematode brain, we will in 7 years (assuming doubling per year) be able to simulate a fruit fly brain. Seven years later, for the same cost, we will be able to simulate a mouse brain. Seven years later, a cat brain, and then finally, 28 years later, we'll be able to simulate neural networks with the same complexity of a human brain. This of course assumes a continued exponential increase in computing power, but biology shows us that it is physically possible, to run what amounts to a super-computer's worth of FLOPS on just a human brain's energy consumption of 20 Watts. Our largest super computers of today are estimated to be within one order of magnitude of the computational power of the human brain. So while by 2043, any personal computer could simulate a human brain, it will be a possible feat for super computers 10-20 years earlier. > > One intersting test I'd like to see is applying Tononi's integrated > information measure to these simple creatures to see if they're > producing any integrated information. I suspect Integrated Information > is a necessary requirement for conscious, but not so sure about > sufficiency. > Doesn't a NAND operation produce integrated information? It seems we're in danger of basing our answers to the binary question "is it conscious?" on purely quantitative, rather than qualitative differences in computations. How many neurons do you think are required to implement the algorithms you consider necessary for consciousness? Jason > > Cheers > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 09:00:14AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > On 29 Aug 2015, at 00:43, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > >I think so. It is at least as conscious as C. Elegans. > > > > > > Assuming that the worm comp substitution level of neuronal > > connection is the correct choice. > > > > Low level animals behavior might rely heavily on smell and other > > chemical interaction, and I am not sure what the sensor represents > > in the robots represent, as C. Elegans is blind (I think). > > > > Hard to really conclude it is thinking from the video, and > > theoretically, we can't never be sure. It might be a philosophical > > worm zombie! > > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > > > >Jason > > > > > >On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:21 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> > > >wrote: > > >On 8/28/2015 3:00 PM, Jason wrote: > > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_i1NKPzbjM > > > > > >So what do you think? Is it conscious? > > > > > >Bremt > > > > > >-- > > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > >Groups "Everything List" group. > > >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > >send an email to [email protected]. > > >To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > > > >-- > > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > >Groups "Everything List" group. > > >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > >send an email to [email protected]. > > >To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders > Visiting Professor of Mathematics [email protected] > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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