On 14 Sep 2015, at 22:12, John Mikes wrote:
I do not intend to get involved in a discussion with Gődel about his
phikosophy, I appreciate his talent and knowldge, just a remark on
the #1 of his list: "Nature is reasonable"
In my agnostic views I would not go for that: we have a mental image
about 'Nature' based on the little we THINK we know about Her based
on the portion we (think we) observed and formulated a "human" reason
upon it.
Itself based on an animal intuition, itself plausibly selected by many
years of "evolution", a very long history, itself base on the
prejudice of the universal machine itself.
The delusion path can be very long indeed.
I can argue that the first lies are in elementary arithmetic ...
According to such formulation the imagined 'Nature" (part) does fit
into such human reason, what I would not translate into
"Nature I S reasonable".
I think it was "the world is rational". Gôdel did not take nature and
naturalism for granted.
He missed the non-materialism of the mechanist hypothesis, as he even
missed Church's thesis and the universal machine, but he saw the
miracle needed to have that Church's thesis. He missed it, but
understood eventually it better than Church.
of course he knwe that his theorem apply to us (the local finite
beings), but not necessarily us (the developping being). of course he
missed also the FPI, which makes us being related both to the set of
all computations, and to some random oracle (and perhaps others, but
there are no evidence).
yet, Gödel tought that maybe evoloution could not have been done in
the known times, and that this could be an empirical evidence for a
god, which shows he missed the multiverse or many-world ideas too.
Some said that Einstein did forbid Gödel to even think about QM, or
something like that ...
The book on Gödel and Einstein is interesting to read to understand
why both Gödel missed the digital mechanist hypothesis. They both
missed the impact of the discovery of the universal machine in
arithmetic. That is the real creative bomb I think.
Bruno
John Mikes
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 9/13/2015 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 12 Sep 2015, at 23:48, Jason Resch wrote:
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 11 Sep 2015, at 04:08, Jason Resch wrote:
So aliens or beings on other worlds, or in other universes, need
not be made of the same particles, or same elements/chemicals as
we, if it is the functions/patterns/mathematical relations that
determine consciousness.
Interesting but I am not sure if that was what Gödel thought about.
(But I confess I have not yet read the entire work of Gödel, I
still miss probably some of the unpublished writings)
I am not certain either. It was conjecture on my part. Another
possible interpretation: God-like intelligences may converge on
the same set of beliefs/actions/personalities, etc. as with
increasing intelligence becomes decreased probability of making
mistakes. Therefore matters of disagreement between any two
entities converges toward zero as intelligence increases.
Then it looks like humans are less intelligent than animals. Should
not the possibility of doing mistake grows with intelligence? Is
not intelligence an opening to the change of mind? That is also the
experience of having been mistaken or deluded or failed and of
possibly still being mistaken and probably being mistaken in the
(hopefully consistent and sound) extensions.
So the omniscient Gods of monotheism are even less intelligent.
Brent
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