On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you have any idea why matter "obeys laws"? > No I do not, I have no idea. But I do know that a chain of "why" questions either comes to an end with a brute fact or it does not come to an end; and I also know that either possibility would leave some people unsatisfied and so I must sadly conclude that some people are just doomed to be unsatisfied. > > Turing machines can create conscious experiences including appearances of > physical realities, > Why are you so certain that physical realities don't create conscious experiences including Turing machines as Mr. Alan Turing's physical brain first did in 1935? > > > including those where there is a computer screen before you, but it isn't > likely to create an experience of your computer screen spontaneously > outputting Wikipedia out of nothing. > I know that is true but I want to know why that is true. I think it's because physics is more fundamental. > > > You might as well write down the static you see on a TV and hope the white > and black dots match the bits of wikipedia. > I think it's because a normal number like Champernowne's not only contains a Wikipedia segment it also contains lots of random black and white dot segments, and the only way to tell one segment from the other is to make a calculation using matter that obeys the laws of physics. > >>> >> >>> >>> we choose to simulate those mathematical objects >>> >> >> >> >> >> Simulated mathematical objects? So nobody knows how much 2+ 2 is, all we >> know is that simulated 2 plus simulated 2 is simulated 4, but real 2 plus >> real 2 is unknown. >> > > > > We know real 2 plus real 2 is 4, because we simulated the interaction of > mathematical objects known as the integers and discovered how operations > like multiplication and addition work. > OK, and this simulation is being done by your physical brain. So physics is simulating mathematics and NOT mathematics simulating physics. > > > This is the source of mathematical all knowledge. > OK, and this simulation is being done by your physical brain. So physics is simulating mathematics and NOT mathematics simulating physics. > > > Mathematicians, using calculators, pen & paper, computers, or their minds, > > And all of those things are made of matter that obeys the laws of physics. > > t > > o simulate the behavior of mathematical objects and it is through this > simulation that they discover properties of mathematical objects that can > only be accessed in this way. So physics is simulating mathematics and NOT mathematics simulating physics. > > From your relative position matter is necessary in order to connect the > configuration of knowledge in your brain with the knowledge inherent in the > platonic computations you seek to emulate. If so then matter is just a mathematical subroutine and a clever programer could hack the system and write a ocean simulation program that would make the computer the program is running on physically wet. When I see that I will concede that mathematics is more fundamental than physics. > > Do you have a better explanation for where mathematical knowledge comes > from? > Perhaps mathematics comes from a desire humans have to develop a language that is especially good at describing the workings of physics. It's true as you pointed out that a lot of higher very abstract mathematics seems to have little or nothing to do with physics, but like any language once it is developed mathematics can be used to write fiction as well as nonfiction, perhaps a lot of it is like a mathematical Harry Potter novel. Or perhaps not, as I've said many times I'm playing devil's advocate because people around here seem far too eager to accept without thinking that mathematics is the fundamental science. Well m aybe it is but then again maybe it is not, it's not a slam dunk either way. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
