On 12/27/2015 3:56 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 7:04 AM, Brent Meeker <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:On 12/23/2015 1:12 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 6:31 PM, John Clark <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 Telmo Menezes <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>wrote: > >> and their land is not your land. >> I do not have the same faith in the divine right of inherited wealth as you do. > Nice dodge. Yes, let's put all in the same bag, Wall Street trust fund kids and remote tribes wanting to keep living their way in *the place they were born in*. I'm not a big fan of Wall Street trust fund kids either, and if one of them owned one of the 3 places on the planet where a thirty meter telescope could be built and refused to let it be used for that purpose I would be in favor of using the law of eminent domain to force the brat to sell it. And by the way, no native Hawaiian or anybody else was ever born atop Mauna Kea, there is nothing living up there except for a few astronomers, and if native Hawaiians get there way soon there won't even be that, they want to remove all telescopes from the mountain including the world class ones that have been there for decades. Why do you defend these people? I don't defend them. I think they should not interfere with the construction of the telescope. All I am saying is that ramming things down people's throats isn't working out so well. I am suggesting that something like the "prime directive" is probably a good idea. It would be nice to put a telescope in a certain mountain, but it's not our mountain, so tough shit.?? Why isn't it our mountain? The Hawaiians didn't create it. The ownership of land is a concept invented and enforced by theU.S. and Hawaiian state government. There's no ownership of land apart from the society that enforces it. In this case the state of Hawaii owns the land and they approved the use of the land for astronomy. This is the usual confusion between lawful and ethical.The desire and need to have some control over one's environment already existed in biological species much more ancient than the Homo Sapeins.
But among social animals it was joint ownership...which is exactly the kind of ownership the government exercises over. The Hawaiians are like a small fraction of the tribe who wants to have exclusive control of a part of the joint territory because they have supernatural myths they tell about it.
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