On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Civilized people wanted the Thirty Meter Telescope built, barbarians >> did not. Yes the barbarians won >> > > > > Interestingly, "barbarian" was a term invented by the Romans to refer to > the Germanic tribes, and it comes com "barba" which is Latin for "beard". >
That's a real nice story but it's not the one I heard. To the Romans anyone not vocalizing in Latin or Greek was just babbling, a word derived from the mindless "ba ba" sound of a bleating goat, and such people were the ba ba people and later the babbling people and eventually barbarians. But regardless of which story is true I make no apology for calling the native Hawaiians who destroyed the Thirty Meter Telescope barbarians. I make no apology whatsoever! > > >> but at least we tried, should we have surrendered to the army of darkness >> and ignorance without even a fight? >> > > > > Who's "we"? Did you participate in that effort? > I didn't do much but I did a little, I wrote some letters and a few angry posts, it's more than what most people did. And at least I didn't make excuses for blatant barbaric and downright anti-human behavior. > > > Because all I'm saying is that calling other people "imbeciles" is usually > not an effective negotiation strategy. > I agree that telling the truth is not always, or even often, an effective negotiation strategy ; so if you know some useful lies that would flatter the barbarians enough that the Thirty Meter Telescope could get built I'm all ears. >> >> What in hell makes it their mountain? What connection do >> >> they have have with it? How many have even been to the top? Astronomers >> had plans for that mountain that could have enriched the entire human race, >> the only plans the native Hawaiians have for it is to "bow down to it". >> > > > > Cultural roots make things yours in a much deeper sense than any law can > prescribe. > Yes, and astronomers have far deeper cultural roots on that mountain than the native Hawaiians ever had, the people who have spent the most time on it are Astronomers and the findings that have emanated from that mountain has changed the lives of every astronomer on the planet even if they've never set foot in the state of Hawaii. > > Many "barbarian" tribes look at our way of life and are not so impressed. > Baloney. The third world is not uninterested in money, and the reason the third dislikes the first is that one has it and the other wants it. The only ones complaining about too much materialism in the world are rich people who have access to any sort of material they want. > For example, they have a hard time understanding why you would let people live in the streets I'd far far FAR prefer to be living on the street of New York City than be a middle class citizen of Malawi. >> >> >> Political correctness took over. >> > > In my view, political correctness is language policing. > It's much more than that. If the Tea Party suddenly claimed ownership of one of only 3 places on earth where a enormously important new scientific instrument could be built and the Tea Party refused to let "their" land be used for that purpose and even insisted that the instruments already there be removed so they can build a conservative family values resource center on the spot you'd be screaming bloody murder. Yes the 2 situations are different, the difference is that Tea Party members are lily white so political correctness gives you permission to call them imbeciles if they are behaving as imbeciles; but the Hawaiians are funny little brown people so the soft racism of reduced expectations kicks in: their ideas are colorful and cute but their skin is brown so you can't expect their cosmology to have any logical consistency. Their skin is brown so you must be sensitive and respect their imbecility. I say the Hawaiians are not cute exotic animals and the Hawaiians are not children either, the Hawaiians are human beings just like me and so should be treated as human beings just like me. > >> What would >> , do you have a better idea >> ? >> > > My idea is the scientific idea: try to understand before acting > That's not the problem, everybody understands mother earth father sky, the problem is nobody with half a brain is impressed by it and nobody who has not been infected with political correctness even pretends to respect it. > > > and remain humble. > Religious Hawaiians should have no difficulty following your advice, they have a lot to be humble about. > > > Classifying them as barbarians and operating from that mindset is > I think "barbaric" is a fine word to describe people who killed the Thirty Meter Telescope because they thought it would somehow prevent them from "bowing down to the mountain". The Hawaiian cosmology with their mother earth father sky crap may be deeper than the bleating of a goat but not much deeper. > > > What do you want to do? > I'd like to see the Thirty Meter Telescope get built, but that's not going to happen. > > > Activate the police state against the native Hawaiians? > I think impeaching the members of the Hawaiian Supreme who voted to kill the telescope would be a better place to start. And no matter what always make sure that religious native Hawaiians get all the respect they deserve. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
