Bruno, at the end of the day, my measure on science (most scientists will disagree) is how it impacts human beings? My demand (though it is a totally ignored voice) is that science should have a purpose aside from discovering and measuring what is true, it should benefit the species in some manner. That scientists miss out on this need, is shows us that their activities are deeply, personal, and often, surivivng from public monies.Their truths should benefit the species, somehow.
-----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2016 10:08 am Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain On 09 Feb 2016, at 15:37, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Now, this is a religious answer, that does not show cause and effect, in a measurable manner, and measuring, plus observation, is what science does. In the theological aristotelian picture. But modern science is born from taking distance with such a picture, and that has given birth to mathematics and theoretical physics. Unfortunately, the bad habit came back quickly, through Aristotle and mainly its pseudo-religious follower. One might come up.with scientific explanations of how, certain events in the new testament, might work, which is entertaining, but unrepeatable. Repeatability is also part of science. Tipler used analogies in physics, with his Physics of Christianity. If we all live long enough we shall see if his physical predictions come true? You can study the bible with the scientific attitude, and it belongs to history, human tales, etc. You can't be scientific and test the bible, or any sacred text, like if he was a scientific book, because it is not. Those are human prose, may be related to some real experiences, but the account is only through parable. What science can say is that in this or that theory, this or that part of the text can be intepreted in this or that way. for example, with the mechanist theory, using a sacred text is already close to a blaspheme, in the "greek" sense of the word. The very notion of "sacred text" might be blasphemous, and it encourage the use of argument per authority and the abandon of critical thinking. Bruno Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -----Original Message----- From: Samiya Illias <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2016 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain The Quran answers the 'Immortality' 'HOW' question repeatedly with the assurance of subterranean rivers in the Gardens of Eden, terming the life of the Hereafter as The Life, and asking us to heed to the invitation to what gives us life! This link lists some verses of the Quran which inform us about Immortality and A Kingdom that Never Decays, its impossibility in this world, and its permanence in the Hereafter: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/mission-of-messengers-vi.html Samiya On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 3:27 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: All this taken on faith alone. For those of us not blessed in faith, we have doubt, and that is reasonable doubt. Doubt is a bad companion, but I believe an evolved survival scheme in nature that worked. The danger with absolute faith is that God answers all questions so we need put much effort in our curiosity. Why spend time effort and money of it is all in God's hands? God answers all questions. Dark matter? God. superconductivity? God wills it. If God did not Will it, it would cease. This is what I term, an answer to the why questions. I am thinking that the HOW questions are now far more important. Why's are questions that might be answered by a sheep herder on a hill side. How is a far different question. How leads to more and more questions. How do we hook up a ceiling fan? How did dark matter form, specifically? How did we have so much normally charged matter, versus antimatter in the skies we see, and the accelerators we test?? By this reasoning How is much closer to God than why. If you decide so view Conway's Life lecture by Steinhart, we all see the How question partially resolved (always partially as Gödel reasoned). Better future scientific equipment will surely bring better and better observations and measurements, and better conclusions. Don't ask me why, ask me how? -----Original Message----- From: Samiya Illias <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 12:19 pm Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain Answers to your questions according to the Quran: [Note: I'm pasting the literal translations of the verses; please follow the link for multiple translations in proper English] 1. How did you come up with the idea for life? [Quran 67:2] The One Who created death and life that He may test you, which of you (is) best (in) deed. And He (is) the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving. http://islamawakened.com/quran/67/2/ 2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about it? [Quran 30:30] So set your face to the religion upright. Nature (made by) Allah (upon) which He has created mankind [on it]. No change (should there be) in the creation (of) Allah. That (is) the religion the correct, but most men (do) not know. http://islamawakened.com/quran/30/30/ 3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie? [Quran 57:25] Certainly We sent Our Messengers with clear proofs and We sent down with them the Scripture and the Balance that may establish the people justice. And We sent down [the] iron, wherein (is) power mighty and benefits for the people, and so that Allah may make evident (he) who helps Him and His Messengers, unseen. Indeed, Allah (is) All-Strong All-Mighty. http://islamawakened.com/quran/57/25/ As for answer 2, I'm trying to comprehend the meaning of 'No change should there be in the creation of Allah' from the narrations of the past civilisations in the Quran. So far I've published six blogposts on the topic: Mission of the Messengers Part I: World History & Future Implications Part II: Satan's Enmity: Origin & Objective Part III: Adam's Attempt to Improve upon Allah's Creation Part IV: Balance & Guidance Part V: Crime & Punishment Part VI: Immortality & A Kingdom that Never Decays Samiya On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:26 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: Samiya is doing abit of Dawa, which is propagating his faih. No problem with this, as long as we acknowledge it. Most here, seek to propagate atheism-which also, is considered tolerable by me. As to questions of creation, I would add Steinhart's 4 minute Youtube lecture on Conway's Life. Well worth watching indeed. Clarity, via math and computer science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouipbDkwHWA Now, if God emerged as a process of the universe or suceeding universes (Turok style), I personally, am still good with this, in the same sense that I am good with people being born. Even of God is an emergent process-mind, I would like for us to ask Him questions. Such as- 1. How did you come up with the idea for life? 2. What are we doing wrong, as a species, and can we do anything about it? 3. Do You need any help, assistance, from our specie? I am also good with Dawkin's god-like entities that may inhabit the universe. If God exists, as a mind, I have long, thought, Dawkin's would be a great interiewer, as he's a logical guy. Dawkins, I mean. On God, Himself, I have also long-wondered if God could have emergenced as a Boltzmann Brain (I think Hugo hates this!), perhaps, THE Boltzmann Brain, after an infinitude of time + space. If this Wiki doesn' sound like PFM (an electronics teacher once said) 'pure freak'in magic!," then I don't know what does? Here is a Plus Math's article 2013. https://plus.maths.org/content/dreaming-dream If we want to get deeper in the weeds, on this, there is a paper out a few years ago, by physicist Don Page that's a bit of fun "For God so loved the Multiverse.." -----Original Message----- From: Brent Meeker <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Feb 2, 2016 2:31 am Subject: Re: Cryonics punched cards and the brain On 2/1/2016 10:54 PM, Samiya Illias wrote: > Yes, I'm indeed grateful to God for being born to Muslim parents which > did make it easier for me from my earliest years to experience Islam. Experiencing it is one thing. Believing it is another thing...a very sad thing that a child should have her head filled with tribal superstitions and her critical capacities stunted. Perhaps contemplating the number of Nobel prizes awarded to Jews and atheists compared to Muslims will help. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
