On Friday, 25 March 2016, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 4:22 AM, John Clark <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 , Samiya Illias <[email protected] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: >> >> >>> > >>> Rationality and sincerity are not mutually exclusive. >>> >> >> If your idea is rational then sincere faith in it >> is unnecessary, but the more irrational your belief is the more sincere >> faith you need. But I want to know one thing, why is sincere faith >> considered a virtue?? It seems much more like a vice to me. >> > > It states in the Quran that God has created us to worship him ( > http://quran.com/51/53-59). > The word worship includes reverence, adoration and loving obedience. > Moreover, rationality has to do with the mind, while faith has to do with > feelings and attitudes. Knowing/acknowledging that God exists is not the > same as being grateful to God for life and all its blessings, nor is it the > same as lovingly doing whatever duty you're assigned to do. It is about > being glad about it and happy to do it! > > >> >>> > >>> I try to show that the Quran is factually correct, which is why I >>> believe the Quran is indeed a message from God. >>> >> >> In >> Quran 7: 54 >> it says the universe was created by Allah in 6 days: >> >> >> "** >> *Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days* >> **" >> >> But in >> Quran 41: 9 >> it says: >> >> *"Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in TWO DAYS?" * >> >> And in >> Quran 41: 10 >> it says: >> >> *"* >> *He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and >> bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give >> them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS"* >> >> And in >> Quran 41: 12 >> >> *"* >> *So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days"* >> >> That's 2 for the earth 4 for nourishment and 2 for that heavens and that >> makes for 8 days. So did Allah make the universe in 6 days or 8? >> > > Excerpt from my blogpost on Creation verses: > http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/creation.html > Three verses of the Qur’an [6:91, 22:74, 39:67] > <http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=no+just+estimate&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all> > state > that the unbelievers have made no just estimate of Allah as is due to Him: > Allah [i] has indeed sent down the scriptures, [ii] is strong and able to > carry out His Will, and [iii] on the Day of Resurrection, the whole of the > earth will be in His grip, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right > hand. > > Creation according to Quran > Reading together and summarising the various verses pertaining to creation > in the Quran, it appears to me that there are two phases of creation: *the > primary phase* of six days (or periods) where the Earth and Heaven were > created; then *the secondary phase* when the already created Earth and > Heaven were joined together, and then the Earth and Seven Heavens were > evolved, with their physical laws. The following sequence emerges: > *Primary Phase:* Allah created the Heavens and the Earth in six days: the > Earth was created in two days and made to grow meaningfully in four days. > Meanwhile, the Heaven was like smoke. Then, He established Himself over > the throne (started governing it). > *Secondary Phase:* the Heaven and Earth were ordered to come together as > one. Then, the Heaven was raised and divided/layered into seven Heavens, > and each assigned its laws. The Earth was expanded and made habitable. > > A verse specifically mentions that as Allah created the seven Heavens, He > also created a similar number of Earths, and that Allah’s command descends > through them. Another verse informs us that we can never escape the > diameters of the heavens without permission/authority. The Quran repeatedly > states that Allah is the Lord of the Worlds. > > Two verses inform us that a Day can be of any length and varies from > measure to measure. Many verses inform us of a Day to come, and that when > we will be asked about how long we stayed on Earth, we will say a day or a > part of it. > <end quote> > > > >> >> And how long is one of Allah's days anyway? In >> Quran 22: 47 >> it says: >> >> *"A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your >> reckoning." * >> > > As we can infer from Quran 39:67, God is much greater than His creation, > and thus outside it. We know from science that the measure of a day varies > from location to location, and depends upon a number of factors. A day on > Earth is 24 earth hours, while a day on Venus is longer than a Venus year. > So, I suppose, outside the concentric seven heavens, a day is equivalent to > a 1000 earth years. And Allah knows best! > >> >> But Quran 70: 4 it says: >> >> *"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof >> is Fifty thousands years."* >> > > This verse is speaking of time taken to travel from Earth. We measure > distance in terms of light years. However, we do not know at what speed do > the angels and the Spirit travel, and how. So, while our knowledge is > limited, we must take this also on faith. > Do you not see how unreasonable it is to include "faith" when you are talking about evidence? We will climb Mount Olympus to look for evidence of Zeus. If we find it, great; if we don't, we'll just take Zeus and all the stories about him on faith. We now know that it took 13.8 billion years for the universe to get into >> its present state, so one of Allah's days is neither 1000 years nor 50,000 >> years but either either 1.72 bullion years or 2.3 billion years depending >> on which contradictory creation story in the Quran you like. >> > > I hope the above explanation of primary and secondary phases clarifies > that there is no contradiction. > > > >> Personally I don't like either one. >> > > > > > >> >> >>> > >>> God lives those who humble themselves, and dislikes the arrogant. >>> >> >> Then God must dislike Himself. >> >> > > God is truly Great and Almighty. He is the Originator and Creator of > Everything and Everyone. He is the Sustainer. Everyone and everything > depends upon Him. > When a creation pretends to not need God, and desires to exalt itself, > then this arrogance is naturally stupid and undesirable. > We need to realise and understand the clear difference between Creator and > Creation, Independent and Dependent, Mighty and Weak, He who is not fed and > those who need to be fed, and so on... > Those who realise and understand the difference know that no matter how > mighty God has made them, they are still in need of God for everything, > including sustaining whatever might and power they have been bestowed with. > Hence they humble themselves in front of God, and God loves those who > humble themselves, simply because they are in truth testifying to the > reality of the situation. > > >> >> >>> > >>> God appreciates gratitude, and dislikes ingratitude. >>> >> >> Then God should give people something to be grateful about >> > > Life and the world are full of blessings that we cannot even enumerate. > There are too many things that we simply take for granted. Please read this > chapter: http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=55 > > On a personal note, I had a creeper with fragrant jasmine flowers growing > all the way to the roof of the house. Once, I thought that I will express > my gratitude by praising Allah for every flower that I could see from where > I was standing... there were far more flowers than I could express my > thanks for! > > >> and stop telling His followers to set off nail bombs in airports. >> > > God does not order any such thing. Its people using religion or believing > in alternative narratives that do such things. > According to my understanding, human life is sacred, and only two > exceptions have been granted to the State. Please read: > http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2016/01/sanctity-of-human-life-sin-in.html > > > > >> >> >>> once this life of trial is over, and we will no longer have any more >>> opportunity to work for the quality of life of our abiding future. >>> >> >> God likes trials? >> > > I don't know if we can phrase it like that, but this is what the Quran > states about why we must be tried and judged: > > Quran 33:72-73 <http://quran.com/33/72-73> Lo! *We offered the trust* unto > the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it > and were afraid of it. *And man assumed it. *Lo! he hath proved a tyrant > and a fool. *So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women, > and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men > and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful*. > > Quran 7:172-174 <http://quran.com/7/172-174> And [mention] *when your > Lord took from the children of Adam* - from their loins - *their > descendants and made them testify of themselves,* [saying to them],*"Am I > not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified."* [This] - lest you > should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this > unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated > [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after > them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And > thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. > > > >> If so then God must be a fan of the scientific method and should be >> delighted with me for using that method to accessing the probability of His >> existence given the evidence that He has allowed me to see. >> > > Yes, indeed, we are repeatedly invited to consider the wonders of creation > in several verses across the Quran. > > >> He certainly can't hold it against me if I don't consider evidence he >> doesn't want me to know about, after all God is omnipotent so if He doesn't >> want me to know something I'm not going to know it. >> >> > > Excerpt from my blogpost Divine Will & Human Free Will: > http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/08/divine-will-and-human-free-will.html > > > *Free Won’t:* > [Al-Qur’an 2:6, translator: Sahih International] Indeed, those who > disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not > warn them - *they will not believe*. > > [Al-Qur’an 4:137, translator: Sahih International] Indeed, those who have > believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then > increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, *nor will He > guide them to a way*. > > [Al-Qur’an 7:146, translator: Yusuf Ali] Those who behave arrogantly on > the earth in defiance of right - *them will I turn away from My signs*: > Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they > see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if > they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. *For they > have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them*. > > [Al-Qur’an 16:22, translator: Sahih International] Your god is one God. > But those who do not believe in the Hereafter - *their hearts are > disapproving**, and they are arrogant*. > > [Al-Qur’an 16:33, translator: Sahih International] Do the disbelievers > await [anything] except that the angels should come to them or there comes > the command of your Lord? Thus did those do before them. *And **Allah > wronged them not, but they had been wronging themselves*. > > <end quote> > >> >> >> >>> > >>> The time we have here is precious and purposeful. >>> >> >> I agree. >> >> >>> > >>> Will you then not take it seriously? >>> >> >> Yes I think reality is precious so as an adult I'm not going to take >> seriously the silly superstitions of bronze age tribes just because my >> mommy and daddy told me to. >> > > The Quran also repeatedly warns against taking the religion of the > forefathers blindly. > > >> But enough of the Quran >> I will now quote the Bible, >> 1 Corinthians 13:11 >> : >> >> *"* >> *When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I >> thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."* >> > > Excerpt from my blogpost Teleology: A purpose-built Universe? > http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/08/teleology-purpose-built-universe.html > > *Teleology Research: * > An interesting study in teleology is shown in this video titled: ‘Is God > an alien concept?’ The experiment on children and adults’ concepts and > instincts of the world being purpose-driven or otherwise, (between minutes > 2 to 7 of the following video) is quite interesting! > Is God an alien concept? Science Channel > <http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/through-the-wormhole/videos/is-god-an-alien-concept.htm> > You Tube <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqpMU6ErXsE> Daily Motion > <http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1hexc7_is-god-an-alien-concept_shortfilms?start=2> > > Samiya > > > >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','everything-list%[email protected]');> >> . >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','everything-list%[email protected]');> > . > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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