On Saturday, 26 March 2016, Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 25-Mar-2016, at 5:40 pm, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > > > On Friday, 25 March 2016, Samiya Illias <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 4:22 AM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 , Samiya Illias <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> > >>>> Rationality and sincerity are not mutually exclusive. >>>> >>> >>> If your idea is rational then sincere faith in it >>> is unnecessary, but the more irrational your belief is the more sincere >>> faith you need. But I want to know one thing, why is sincere faith >>> considered a virtue?? It seems much more like a vice to me. >>> >> >> It states in the Quran that God has created us to worship him ( >> http://quran.com/51/53-59). >> The word worship includes reverence, adoration and loving obedience. >> Moreover, rationality has to do with the mind, while faith has to do with >> feelings and attitudes. Knowing/acknowledging that God exists is not the >> same as being grateful to God for life and all its blessings, nor is it the >> same as lovingly doing whatever duty you're assigned to do. It is about >> being glad about it and happy to do it! >> >> >>> >>>> > >>>> I try to show that the Quran is factually correct, which is why I >>>> believe the Quran is indeed a message from God. >>>> >>> >>> In >>> Quran 7: 54 >>> it says the universe was created by Allah in 6 days: >>> >>> >>> "** >>> *Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six >>> Days* >>> **" >>> >>> But in >>> Quran 41: 9 >>> it says: >>> >>> *"Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in TWO DAYS?" * >>> >>> And in >>> Quran 41: 10 >>> it says: >>> >>> *"* >>> *He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and >>> bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give >>> them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS"* >>> >>> And in >>> Quran 41: 12 >>> >>> *"* >>> *So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days"* >>> >>> That's 2 for the earth 4 for nourishment and 2 for that heavens and that >>> makes for 8 days. So did Allah make the universe in 6 days or 8? >>> >> >> Excerpt from my blogpost on Creation verses: >> http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/creation.html >> Three verses of the Qur’an [6:91, 22:74, 39:67] >> <http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=no+just+estimate&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all> >> state >> that the unbelievers have made no just estimate of Allah as is due to Him: >> Allah [i] has indeed sent down the scriptures, [ii] is strong and able to >> carry out His Will, and [iii] on the Day of Resurrection, the whole of the >> earth will be in His grip, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right >> hand. >> >> Creation according to Quran >> Reading together and summarising the various verses pertaining to >> creation in the Quran, it appears to me that there are two phases of >> creation: *the primary phase* of six days (or periods) where the Earth >> and Heaven were created; then *the secondary phase* when the already >> created Earth and Heaven were joined together, and then the Earth and Seven >> Heavens were evolved, with their physical laws. The following sequence >> emerges: >> *Primary Phase:* Allah created the Heavens and the Earth in six days: >> the Earth was created in two days and made to grow meaningfully in four >> days. Meanwhile, the Heaven was like smoke. Then, He established Himself >> over the throne (started governing it). >> *Secondary Phase:* the Heaven and Earth were ordered to come together as >> one. Then, the Heaven was raised and divided/layered into seven Heavens, >> and each assigned its laws. The Earth was expanded and made habitable. >> >> A verse specifically mentions that as Allah created the seven Heavens, He >> also created a similar number of Earths, and that Allah’s command descends >> through them. Another verse informs us that we can never escape the >> diameters of the heavens without permission/authority. The Quran repeatedly >> states that Allah is the Lord of the Worlds. >> >> Two verses inform us that a Day can be of any length and varies from >> measure to measure. Many verses inform us of a Day to come, and that when >> we will be asked about how long we stayed on Earth, we will say a day or a >> part of it. >> <end quote> >> >> >> >>> >>> And how long is one of Allah's days anyway? In >>> Quran 22: 47 >>> it says: >>> >>> *"A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your >>> reckoning." * >>> >> >> As we can infer from Quran 39:67, God is much greater than His creation, >> and thus outside it. We know from science that the measure of a day varies >> from location to location, and depends upon a number of factors. A day on >> Earth is 24 earth hours, while a day on Venus is longer than a Venus year. >> So, I suppose, outside the concentric seven heavens, a day is equivalent to >> a 1000 earth years. And Allah knows best! >> >>> >>> But Quran 70: 4 it says: >>> >>> *"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof >>> is Fifty thousands years."* >>> >> >> This verse is speaking of time taken to travel from Earth. We measure >> distance in terms of light years. However, we do not know at what speed do >> the angels and the Spirit travel, and how. So, while our knowledge is >> limited, we must take this also on faith. >> > > Do you not see how unreasonable it is to include "faith" when you are > talking about evidence? We will climb Mount Olympus to look for evidence of > Zeus. If we find it, great; if we don't, we'll just take Zeus and all the > stories about him on faith. > > > Do you not take gravity on faith? > Do you not take speed of light as the maximum speed limit on faith? > What if tomorrow it is discovered that the speed of light barrier can be > breached and it is possible to travel faster than the speed of light? > Science takes a lot of things on faith, and hopes that it will be proven > someday. > If the scripture is really from God's knowledge, then of course there must > be plenty of things in it which we do understand, and plenty more which we > will understand in future when our knowledge-base expands. > There is plenty of evidence we can understand and verify. It would be in > our interest to study those first instead of debating what's beyond our > knowledge. > Science doesn't take any of these things on faith - there are good reasons to believe them, and if better theories with better evidence come along, the old theories are dropped. Religious beliefs are often bizarre, but that is not the main problem with them; after all, there are many scientific theories which are bizarre. The main difference between a religious and a scientific belief is that the scientific belief is affected by evidence, either for or against, while the religious belief is not. You have tried to show that some of the writings in the Quran are consistent with scientific facts about the world, but I think this is disingenuous, because if you found inconsistencies you would just say that God works in mysterious ways and go on believing the same thing. A faith-based belief is not affected by evidence, a rational belief is. -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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