Bruno wrote: *"If you agree that "2+2=4" cannot be corrupted ..."*
only, if you deny the existence of 'random' (in the physical world, including math, of course). Otherwise 2 + 3715(?) may be 4 etc. and your math became illusoric. Since we agree (you and me at least,* agnostics*) in an overwhelming unknowable infinite complexity as the *Entirety* (World?) and reduce our accessible knowables to a tiny-tiny fraction of such, we have to exclude the RANDOM from the potentialities of such World, to make ANY theory believable. And that may go to religious considerations as well (what I do not include in my train of thoughts). I never received an answer to my skepticism about 2+2=4 in *ANY* relations. Maybe I am not scientific enough - so be it. (Science = doubt). Just a short remark John Mikes On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 9:00 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 08 May 2016, at 23:48, Samiya Illias wrote: > > > > On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> >> On 23 Apr 2016, at 05:30, Samiya Illias wrote: >> >> This email list has been pondering, discussing and debating machine >> theology, the mind-body problem, 1P, 3P, and so on. You understand the >> relationship between the software and the hardware. Who then can better >> appreciate the scriptures when they speak of the WORD preceding everything, >> that is, the CODE which generated the entire creation and everyone and >> everything in it?! Who then can better understand that it is the COMMAND >> which effects changes in the PROGRAM, and the COMMAND is generated by the >> PROGRAMMER (God)?! Who then knows that even what appears RANDOM is >> generated by CODE?! Who then can better relate to the concepts of NAFS (1P) >> and OBSERVERS & WITNESSES (3P)?! Who then can better realise that if a CODE >> was originally conceived and has been WRITTEN, then repeating the CODE to >> RECREATE it is far easier?! >> >> >> >> That is cool, Samya. >> >> >> And, especially, who then can better understand that tampering with the >> PERFECT CODE only corrupts it?! >> >> >> >> If the PERFECT CODE can be corrupted, it means that it is not the perfect >> code. >> >> I don't think you can corrupt the perfect code, as I don't believe there >> is bugs in elementary arithmetic (not confuse again with possible human or >> machine theories about it). >> >> If you agree that "2+2=4" cannot be corrupted then the entire universal >> dovetailing cannot be corrupted. It emulates all programs with all possible >> bugs, but none on this will change the elementary facts on which it >> proceeds. Plausibly, most phenomenologies (NAFS) inherit a part of its >> stability, and correctness, and perhaps even an atom of its perfection, who >> nows? >> >> You can't corrupt the Big One. You can trust HIM/SHE/IT on this. I think. >> > > My God (Allah) is the One who wrote/spoke all the codes of creation, > including the big one(s). I trust Allah does not allow anyone, including > the big one(s), to corrupt creation. In fact, they all humbly submit to the > Will of Allah and live their purpose in the grand scheme of creation. Those > created beings who misuse their free will to try to corrupt were never > taken nor will ever be taken as part of the executive of the grand creation > (Quran 18:51 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/18/51/>). Respite is given > for a certain amount of time. When that period expires, all will be judged, > and in perfect justice the corrupt will be contained for ever. > > As I understand the scripture and its message, Allah bestowed some > advanced intelligence to humans to entrust us with some big > responsibilities (Quran 33:72 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/72/>). > However, we need to prove that we are worthy of undertaking those > responsibilities (Quran 33:73 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/73/>), > and therefore He created death and life to test us (Quran 67:2 > <http://islamawakened.com/quran/67/2/>, 29:2 > <http://islamawakened.com/quran/29/2/>). Thus, He created this contained > environment, practical exam room, (Quran 76:2 > <http://islamawakened.com/quran/76/2/>) where we have been granted a > certain degree of freedom along with guidance, an open book exam (Quran > 76:3 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/76/3/>). > > Adam was initially examined in the Garden, and in his pursuit of > Immortality and a Kingdom that Never Decays > <http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/mission-of-messengers-iii.html> > (Quran 20:120 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/20/120/>), Adam's tampering > with his DNA resulted in the loss of the natural clothing of humans. On > Earth, humans are among the rare creatures whose skins are bare and not > covered with fur, feather, shell or some other form of covering to hide > their body. Scientists have discovered pseudogenes (mutated, inactive > genes) in humans, which indicate that perhaps sometime in the distant past, > human skin was covered in fur or feather. > > Adam and his progeny (us) have been sent to this Earth to be examined. > People before us were examined, and so are we also here to take our exam > (Quran 29:3 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/29/3/>). Mighty civilisations > <http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-mighty-ancients.html> > have preceded us, who were given knowledge of or from Everything, yet when > they arrogantly refused to submit to the guidance and will of God > <http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/mission-of-messengers-iv.html>, > they were warned of impending punishment, and eventually destroyed for > their corruptions > <http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/mission-of-messengers-v.html> > . > > > And Allah knows best! > > > According to your interpretation of the Quran, and actually, mine, too > (for the last sentence). Where we differ is that I interpret the Quran as > identfying Allah and the Big One, which automatically prevents me (us, the > believers) to attribute any saying to Him/It/Her, unless allegorically or > metaphorically. > All verses in the Quran can only be invoked personally. They mention > Allah, and so using them in practice or terrestrial matter would become an > authoritative argument (as it does with some sunni literalist reading as we > can see in some part of the Muslim world). > Only Allah can judge, no humans can refer to Allah or the Quran, nor the > Bible, to judge another one. Now, my point was just that many Muslims > throughout the age agreed with this point, and I found interesting that > there is still today a branch of Islam (Bektashi) which interpret the Quran > in that way. It is "mechanist"-compatible. Only such interpretation of the > Quran has a future when we will expand in the galaxy, as such expansion > will be done only through the mechanist theotechnologies. > > Bruno > > > > > Samiya > > > > >> Bruno >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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