On 26 Apr 2016, at 04:35, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 5:54 AM, Telmo Menezes
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:50 PM, Samiya Illias <[email protected]
> wrote:
The Quran, Chapter 112
Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He
begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him.
The God I worship is not part of creation but rather outside and
independent of creation. My God, Allah, The Deity is The One who
conceived the entire creation, coded the software, executed to
create the hardware, and sustains the program wholly and entirely.
Allah is independent of the program and all within it. Everything
and everyone within the program is dependent on the All-Knowing God
for everything.
That's fine, except that now we need a theory of Allah, because
everything else is irrelevant under that model. In fact, you just
renamed "everything" to "Allah". So what's your theory of Allah?
Allah: there is nothing comparable to Him
The Quran introduces us to the attributes of Allah, but does not
describe the form of Allah, and that is where we must stop if we are
believers.
G* introduces the machines to the attributes of the Arithmetical
Truth, but does not describe the form of Arithmetical Truth (and even
explain why that is impossible), and that is where we must stop (to
try to justify rationally what is Truth) if we are believers (in Truth).
As per Quran 112:4 there is nothing like Allah, thus a believer in
the Quran should not try to imagine or state what Allah is.
To state? I agree. But to imagine or conceive new axioms is *always*
possible. If you state that we must stop to not only justify but to
search new axioms, you are explicitly using an argument per authority
of the kind of those who want religion opposed to science. That is
obscurantism. It often lead to persecution of the honest modest
researchers.
Quran 31:30 describes Allah as Al-Haq.
ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ
الْحَقُّ وَأَنَّ مَا يَدْعُونَ مِن
دُونِهِ الْبَاطِلُ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ
هُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْكَبِيرُ
Al-Haq is among the many names or attributes of God. Though
generally translated as The Truth, the word al-Haq encompasses a
range of meanings, and as contrasted to baatil [falsehood], the
primary signification the word ‘haq’ is suitableness to the
requirements of wisdom, justice, right, or rightness, truth,
reality, or fact. The state, or quality, or property, of being just,
proper, right, correct. Lane’s Lexicon covers around six pages:http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lan
e/
Al-Haq is merely one of the aspects of Allah (God) who is much more
than any word or concept that we can imagine or relate to. This link
has a list of names/attributes mentioned in the Quran:http://www.whyislam.org/god/names-and-attributes-of-allah/
No problem here, a priori. But not all branches of Islam will
interpret the names in the same way. What I say, is that the evidence
from logic and observation might be much closer to the Bektashi
interpretation than any interpretation dismissing automatically the
other interpretations. They take correctly into account that we are
humans or even that we are finite creature, and so must be modest and
cautious when discussing possible attribute of the One Which has no
name at the source of everything.
Quran 17:85 informs us that:
وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ
الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا
أُوتِيتُم مِّنَ الْعِلْمِ إِلَّا
قَلِيلًا
We are informed by verse 17:85 that the Ar-Ruh, generally translated
as Spirit, is the Command of God, and of it we have been given very
little knowledge. Thus, it would be erroneous to think that God is
Spirit. With reference to what was breathed into Mary, mother of
Jesus, please see:http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/10/virgin-birth.html
Quran 24:35 informs us that:
اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ
وَالْأَرْضِ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ
كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ
الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ
الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ
دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِن شَجَرَةٍ
مُّبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَّا
شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ
يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ
لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ نُّورٌ عَلَىٰ
نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن
يَشَاءُ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ
الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ وَاللَّهُ
بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
The verse uses the term Nur to describe the presence of Allah in
Samawaat (Heavens/Skies) and Earth. The verse itself says that Allah
is using examples here for humans. Hence, the following are some of
the terms as I understand them:
Nur: light or something with similar properties which helps us see
in the dark
Glass: Nur is enclosed in Glass, an amorphous substance which we are
very familiar with on Earth, having the properties of transmitting,
reflecting and refracting light
Kawkab: the glass is likened to a Kawkab. The term
‘كَوْكَبٌ’ used in the Quran seems to refer to objects
which do not produce light, but shine due to the light of another
source. I think they are solid objects made from sand/soil/clay, and
have rocky features. Planets, asteroids, meteoroids and comets, all
fit in this description. [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/08/kawakib-planets-comets-and-other-rocky.html
]
The verse goes on to give an example of the external source of the
Nur as an olive, a blessed tree, whose oil almost glows forth even
if not touched by fire, hence a radiant, continuous source of Nur in
the As-Samawaat (the seven concentric skies) and Al-Ard (the Earth).
I understand the terms لَّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا
غَرْبِيَّةٍ as 'not of the two origins and not of the two
endings' that is the source of Nur is external to the first(this)
and second(Hereafter) creation of السَّمَاوَاتِ
وَالْأَرْضِ. I've discussed the reasons in some detail at:http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/08/guardi
ng-sky.html
Allah can use examples as Allah knows everything.
However, we should not use examples for Allah, as we do not know, as
Quran 16:74 warns us:
فَلَا تَضْرِبُوا لِلَّهِ
الْأَمْثَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَعْلَمُ
وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
Multiple translations of the verses are available
at:http://www.islamawakened.com/index.php/qur-an
May Allah guide us to His Nur, increase us in guidance, be well-
pleased with us when we meet Him, and perfect our nur for us.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2016/01/allah-there-is-nothing-comparable-to-him.html
Does it make sense to pray an All Knowing One full of Endless Mercy?
Is not praying God an insult at His Perfection? A symptom of doubt on
what might be closed to the undoubtable (the experienced or lived
truth)? There might be less problem (in the machine theology) by
adding "My"before, like in "My God!", or like in "Monsieur, Madame,
etc."
I really don't know, but as a scientist I professionally doubt all
theories, all texts. I doubt the Human theories, the Machine's
theories, the Plant's theories, ... It is the only way to progress.
Finding mistakes = harm reduction. It is the same path from bad to
less bad or good to more good.
Science is an art of being (shown) wrong. It asks only for a sort of
humility in front of the Unknown.
You can't use science to confirm a theology, you can only use science
to refute or improve a theology.
When a religion disallows comments and variate interpretations of
texts, it means only that it has become a tool for some people to
control and manipulate others (for quite unreligious reason if that
needs to be said).
Then I agree with Telmo, if God exists, it means that a theory of
everything needs to explain God among the other "things", entities,
"beings", and why it has no name, etc
Note that this is exactly what the Universal Löbian machines do, with
respect to what *we-humans* can call "Arithmetical Truth").
From inside arithmetic we are automatically confronted to a bigger
ONE, which is not there ontologically, but quite "real"
phenomenologically. That internal ONE is absolutely not nameable and
even the full paradise of Cantor cannot render it justice (it is *big*).
Bruno
Samiya
Cheers
Telmo.
I worship not that which you worship, nor worship you that which I
worship! Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Samiya
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