Le 9 mai 2017 01:17, "Bruce Kellett" <[email protected]> a écrit :
On 9/05/2017 12:22 am, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2017-05-08 15:18 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett <[email protected]>: > On 8/05/2017 5:25 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > 2017-05-08 9:14 GMT+02:00 Bruce Kellett < <[email protected]> > [email protected]>: > >> On 8/05/2017 5:01 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> Something lie the speed prior... yes the UD has all of them, but the >> measure function (which we don't have) must render the consistency, thing >> like complexity and size could be a way to explain why consciousness->white >> noise have low measure. >> >> >> Those are just arbitrary assumptions, designed to give you some handle on >> what you want. For consistency, the definition of 'consistent >> continuations' for the measure must come from logic and/or arithmetic alone. >> > > A measure function would come from arithmetic alone, complexity/size/... > are arithmetical notion... so I don't see your point, > > > If one insists on 'consistent continuations' of conscious states, it does > not seem that 'size (of what, program length, or what?) can really do the > job. > > it's not because there are everything that everything is equally > probable... the problem is exactly the same with MWI... you have to have a > measure function, I understand you reject even the idea, so it seems > pointless to discuss > > > What gives you the idea that I reject a measure function for QM in the MWI > interpretation -- the Born rule applied to the wave function is precisely > the measure function one needs, for any interpretation of QM to accord with > experience. > > If physics is to come from the UD (computationalism) you need a measure > over conscious states. From what Bruno says, it is not clear that these > conscious states need consistent continuations -- your next conscious > moment might be a computation is some entirely different program of the UD. > However, that notion runs into the Occam catastrophe that Russell mentions > -- the overwhelming majority of programs that instantiate our conscious > moments run from white noise in the past, to white noise in the future -- > Boltzmann brains, in effect. > > ... remember, I'm not here to be convinced in any way that your > ontological stance is true or not (or the ones of someone else) but to > discuss the everything ideas and theories. > > > Presumably you are interested in tests of these ideas? And the possibility > that there may be conceptual problems with their implementation? I am not > making any ontological claims here. I am simply asking how one can get > physics out of computationalist notions. > > To have that we have to extract a measure function... which we don't have. But things like complexity,size, minimum change between computation steps, ... may give a clue to it. The fact that we don't have one does not mean there isn't any and that measure function must exists for computationalism to have any meaning. Assuming it is true, there is such a function... That is just the usual non-argument -- "If our theory is correct, then it must work...." It's not a non argument, and it's not my theory. Assuming it, that measure function must exist and be in accordance with observation. Finding it or proving there is no such function would be a result, again you're no more discussing the idea but trying to convince other that you know there is no such function and that idea is a waste... But you don't. No need to repeat your bias, we know it. Quentin All that remains is for you to prove that your theory is correct, and without making contact with some facts and making some verifiable predictions, you can't do that. Bruce -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
