On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
*>> did Einstein believe in anything or did he just write symbols on > paper that got published as journal articles? If you think he did believe > it I'd like to know how you determined that, and then I want to know what > exactly Einstein's brain had that the Turing Machine (the one that was > doing such a good job emulating Einstein) lacked."* > > > I do not understand. Are you assuming that Einstein is a p-zombie? > I don't know and don't want to know what a "p-zombie" is, it sounds obscene. However I do want to know if you assume that a intelligent computer is a zombie , and if so why do you think that is a reasonable assumption to make about a smart computer but not about a smart person like Einstein. > > > I do assume that Einstein brain is Turing emulable, > Good, so you haven't totally abandoned rationality. > > which means that the only difference is in the belief that the "Einstein > Turing machine" has. > The Einstein Turing machine says some brilliant things about our physical world and it also says it passionately believes what it's saying. There is plenty of evidence that it is telling the truth about one of those statements, but what evidence do you have it is lying about the other one? And what evidence do you have that the biological Einstein was telling the truth about both? > > All universal machine do exactly the same thing > If they didn't then they wouldn't be a universal machine . > > > and so is not a good criteria for person identity. > How do you figure that? It seem to me that the observance of behavior that is exactly the same is a great way to determine the equivalence of personal identity ; in fact I can't think of a better one. > > > But they differ in their provability of believability extension, > No idea what " believability extension " means or what proof you have that it exists. > > All Löbian machine are universal machine. > > Not all universal machine are Löbian machine. > If it can't emulate something then it's not a universal machine, but it doesn't matter because you said a Turing Machine can emulate a "Löbian machine". So whatever a "Löbian machine" can do a Turing Machine can do it too. > > Löbian machines are Turing machine with enough belief so > So what test can I perform in the lab to determine if machine X is Löbian or Turing? If you have none then it's not science. > > > that the G* theology > Oh no, now we have G* theology! If homemade jargon and acronyms were science you'd have about 10 Nobel Prizes by now. > > Basically, you obtain a Löbian machine from a universal Turing machine by > adding enough "induction axiom". > It would be easy to include the induction axiom in a Turing machine's program, just tell it that things usually continue. That why Evolution managed to come up with brains that could make use of inductive reasoning about 500 million years before brains that could use deductive reasoning. There is nothing magical about induction and there is certainly nothing about it that is beyond a Turing Machine. > >> >> >> To hell with your silly childish step 3! > > > > > Childish? > Yes childish. > > I would say "easy". > I would say "simple". > > > But then you > > are the (only) one I know having a problem with it. > The only one? If so, if I'm the only one who has a problem with endowing the person pronoun "you" with the power to narrow down the infinite set of objects to just one specific unique example of that set and do so immediately after a "you" duplicating machine has been introduced then I'm dealing with children. Especially when the entire point of the exercise is to illuminate the nature of subjective experience, which is what personal pronouns are all about, it's why "you" and "me" don't mean the same thing. > > > Its theology is the same as us, when we assume computationalism. > You really do need to get a dictionary so you can look up that word. John Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
