On 8/21/2017 5:43 AM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[*Philip Benjamin*]
There is a difference between mathematical proposition and
mathematical operation. For example, quantum theory is a mathematical
proposition
It includes more than mathematical propositions. It includes
interpretations of the mathematics that relates it to operations and
observations in the physical world.
, but Quantum interpretation such as "Collapse", "Many Worlds" etc. is
philosophy/religion deserving no mathematical operation.
What does it mean to "deserve a mathematical operation"? Is it like
having your matrix removed?
Brent
Genetics can be subjected to mathematical operation, but Common
Descent is a philosophical speculation beyond mathematics. So is the
/evidential Natural Selection. /It can be subjected to mathematical
analysis, but the /un-evidential trans-speciation /is philosophy
beyond mathematics.
*Philip Benjamin*
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*From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
<everything-list@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bruno Marchal
<marc...@ulb.ac.be>
*Sent:* Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:50 PM
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Is math real?
On 20 Aug 2017, at 17:31, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[*Philip Benjamin*]
This is the wrong question, "not even wrong"!! The right question is
"are the THINGS/SUBJECTS which mathematics deal with real?
OK, we agree I think, but fundamentally, it is not even that, at least
when we apply mathematics (in the natural science, or in metaphysics;
theology, ...).
It is "do you agree with this or that mathematical proposition".
(followed by "agreement" on definitions).
Now some mathematical proposition does not ask much, like most theorem
in first order arithmetic (when the proof are not too long).
Some propositions ask us more, like when using set theory, or set
theory + the choice axiom.
Some proposition asks for so much that we will never stop searching a
proof, like Riemann hypothesis, which we know refutable in very
elementary arithmetic in case it would be false.
But the question "is math real" is often answered in the negative by
the conventionalist (like Goethe, Perhaps Bergson, and the early
positivist in math). In my opinion, this is not defensible, from a
mathematical logical viewpoint, even before Gödel's theorem, and still
much more non-defensible after.
See my other post to David for some precision. The mathematical real
is very vast, and it is normal some part are more doubtful than other
parts. Some part are real, but only phenomenologically so, like with
physics when we assume computationalism, as I explained often here.
Bruno
Best regards
*Philip Benjamin*
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*From:*everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com><everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of David Nyman
<david.ny...@gmail.com <mailto:david.ny...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:*Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:24 PM
*To:*everything-list
*Subject:*Re: Is math real?
On 20 Aug 2017 2:46 p.m., "Bruno Marchal" <marc...@ulb.ac.be
<mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:
On 19 Aug 2017, at 01:21, David Nyman wrote:
On 18 August 2017 at 18:13, Bruno Marchal<marc...@ulb.ac.be
<mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>>wrote:
On 18 Aug 2017, at 15:39, David Nyman wrote:
He points at a mug and says that 'representations' (meaning
numbers) aren't to be confused with things themselves.
He confuses a number and a possible representation of a number.
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