On 01 Sep 2017, at 19:02, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> So if each of them is the Helsinki person, and if each
sees a different city, and if 1+1 is still equal to 2 ,then you tell
me, how many cities did the Helsinki person end up seeing?
>> That has never been the question.
Perhaps not but John Clark doesn't know because nobody, absolutely
nobody has clearly articulated exactly what the question is.
See below.
> But 3-1 you + 3-1 you = 2 3-1-you yes indeed. The key
point is that 1-you + 1-you can give only one 1-you (+ a 3-1-....
Homemade babytalk.
Not at all. It is only the nuances that we need to make the question
precise. You keep saying "the question is not precise", but you
dismiss the precision without any explanation other than with an insult.
See any of my previous explanation of 1p and 3p, and if you don't
undersand, ask a question.
Bruno
>>> And both will confirm that they have obtained one bit of
information.
>> What bit of information was that? I can't think of any
information they have obtained that everybody else didn't already
have long before the duplication.
> ?If that was the case, they can give it to the H-man.
let us give him the bit of information "I am the W-man",
Him? HIM!!
? The H-man has not yet been duplicated.
It always comes back to those god damn personal pronouns that are
absolutely essential if fuzzy thinking is to be hidden. Before the
duplication nobody can give "him" information or give "him" anything
at all because before the duplication "him" did not exist. But
before the duplication everybody who did exist already knew
that the man who would say "I am the W-man" would be the
man who saw W and the man who saw W would say "I am the W-man".
And the point is that the H-man cannot know which of the W-man or the
M-man he will find himself to be in the first person sense (with not
an atom of ambiguity, just an indeterminacy).
And yes I know that's a tautology and because of that it must be
true, and yes I know its not very deep, but you're the one making a
big deal over it not me.
No. You miss that the H-man is unable to write in his diary which
specific city 1p-he will see, or he will 1p-see, despite being able to
predict that he will see a specific city, not both.
You continue to dismiss the 1p-experience of all the copies.
>> If John Clark knew what "yourself" meant in a question about
the future and a man about to enter a yourself duplicating machine
then John Clark could provide an answer.
> You know what it means,
As the world's greatest expert on what John Clark knows I can
unequivocally state that John Clark does NOT know what "yourself"
means in a question about the future if John Clark is about to enter
a "yourself" duplicating machine.
>> To hell with your damn coffee!
> Saying" the hell with" is hardly an argument.
You first started talking about that stupid coffee about 5 years
ago and have repeated it like a parrot about 99 times since then
with no variation whatsoever, and that's not a argument either.
Just answer the question clearly one time, then. Do you agree that the
H-man can predict that he (in the 1p sense) will drink a cup of coffee
with certainty (modulo all default hypotheses, and assuming of course
that a cup of coffee will be given to both copies)?
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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