On Fri, 29 Sep 2017 at 7:39 pm, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:48 PM, Terren Suydam <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> This thought experiment must be analyzed from the first person perspective >> > > There is no *THE* > first person perspective > if > first person perspective > duplicating machines exist!!!!! It's the same blunder over and over and > over again. > There could be an infinite number of copies but each one of them will have THE first person perspective. > >> (and by that I'm referring to the grammatical person >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_person>). >> > > > I > would bet money that > the third grade English teacher > that > wrote that article did not have first person perspective > > duplicating machines > > in mind. > > >> > >> There is only one stream of consciousness, ever, >> > > Then why can't anybody *ever* tell me if that > one stream of consciousness > is in Moscow or Washington? > > >> > >> despite the possibility of its bifurcation (no different from many-worlds) >> > > In > many-worlds > the meaning of personal pronouns are always clear, in Bruno's thought > experiment they never are. > > >> > >> The only reality a person experiences is the one inside their head. >> Thanks to this, we never have to get into pronouns > > > Then why is > Terren Suydam > unable to state > Terren Suydam > 's ideas without the constant use of personal pronouns and the misuse of > articles like "the" and "a"? > > > > >> You seem to have a hang-up that prevents you from adopting that >> perspective >> > > My > hang-up > is I don't know what > perspective > you're talking about and neither do you. > > >> > >> you compulsively return to questions about the objective reality, >> > > Objective reality is important but subjective reality is even more > important. There is only one objective reality but there are billions of > subjective realities, so a question about subjective reality needs to > specify which one it's referring to, and the way English grammar uses > personal pronouns just can't do that if people duplicating machines are in > the mix. > > >> > >> talking in terms of multiple consciousnesses, >> > > How can I not talk about > multiple consciousnesses > if you're talking about people duplicating machines? > > >> > >> and getting confused about the referents of grammatical conventions. >> > > I plead guilty to that charge, I am VERY confused > > about what you're talking about because you're using > grammatical conventions > just as people have been using for centuries, but for centuries there > has been no people duplicating machines. A century ago "What one and only > one city will I see tomorrow?" was a real question with a real answer > because the meaning of the personal pronoun "I" was clear, > but a century from now "Tomorrow > I > will see > one and only one city after I have become two, what is the name of that > one city I will see?" would just be ridiculous. > > Is it really your position that the English language will need > no modification on how it uses personal pronouns even > after people duplicating machines become common? > > >> > >> And you blame that gibberish on the thought experiment itself, >> > > If it's not gibberish then what in the world is the above "question" > asking? Who is the referent to the personal pronoun "I" in the phrase > > " > I > will see > tomorrow > " > if "I" am to be duplicated today? > > >> > >> you've lost the plot. >> > > Gibberish has no plot. > > > >> > >> If you want to continue this, great, but I'm not going to go around in >> circles >> > > You could still participate, you could just do what Bruno does and > chant the mantra "you confuse the 3p and the 1p", that won't take up much > of your time. > > > John K Clark > > > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
