On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 7:43:14 AM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On 15 June 2018 at 23:57, <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:45:43 AM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: > >> > >> On 15 June 2018 at 13:27, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:33:53 AM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On 15 June 2018 at 02:55, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM UTC, [email protected] > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 11:30:27 PM UTC, Jason wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Physical Theories, Eternal Inflation, and Quantum Universe, > >> >> >>> Yasunori > >> >> >>> Nomura > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> We conclude that the eternally inflating multiverse and many > worlds > >> >> >>> in > >> >> >>> quantum mechanics are the same. Other important implications > >> >> >>> include: > >> >> >>> global spacetime > >> >> >>> can be viewed as a derived concept; the multiverse is a > transient > >> >> >>> phenomenon during the > >> >> >>> world relaxing into a supersymmetric Minkowski state. We also > >> >> >>> present > >> >> >>> a > >> >> >>> theory of “initial > >> >> >>> conditions” for the multiverse. By extrapolating our framework > to > >> >> >>> the > >> >> >>> extreme, we arrive at a > >> >> >>> picture that the entire multiverse is a fluctuation in the > >> >> >>> stationary, > >> >> >>> fractal “mega-multiverse,” > >> >> >>> in which an infinite sequence of multiverse productions occurs. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> "Therefore, we conclude that the multiverse is the same as (or a > >> >> >>> specific > >> >> >>> manifestation > >> >> >>> of ) many worlds in quantum mechanics." > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> "In eternal inflation, however, one first picks a causal patch; > >> >> >>> then > >> >> >>> one > >> >> >>> looks for observers in it.” Our framework does not follow this > >> >> >>> approach. We > >> >> >>> instead pick an observer first, and then construct the relevant > >> >> >>> spacetime > >> >> >>> regions associated with it. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Instead of admitting the existence of the “beginning,” we may > >> >> >>> require > >> >> >>> that the quantum observer principle is respected for the whole > >> >> >>> history > >> >> >>> of > >> >> >>> spacetime. In this case, the beginning of our multiverse is a > >> >> >>> fluctuation of > >> >> >>> a larger structure, whose beginning is also a fluctuation of an > >> >> >>> even > >> >> >>> larger > >> >> >>> structure, and this series goes on forever. This leads to the > >> >> >>> picture > >> >> >>> that > >> >> >>> our multiverse arises as a fluctuation in a huge, stationary > >> >> >>> “megamultiverse,” which has a fractal structure." > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> The Multiverse Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, Raphael > Bousso > >> >> >>> and > >> >> >>> Leonard Susskind > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> In both the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and > the > >> >> >>> multiverse > >> >> >>> of eternal inflation the world is viewed as an unbounded > collection > >> >> >>> of > >> >> >>> parallel universes. > >> >> >>> A view that has been expressed in the past by both of us is that > >> >> >>> there > >> >> >>> is > >> >> >>> no need to > >> >> >>> add an additional layer of parallelism to the multiverse in > order > >> >> >>> to > >> >> >>> interpret quantum > >> >> >>> mechanics. To put it succinctly, the many-worlds and the > multiverse > >> >> >>> are > >> >> >>> the same > >> >> >>> thing [1]. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Jason > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Not right. Not even wrong. AG. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Eternal inflation and string theory imply universes created by > >> >> > natural > >> >> > processes. The jury is out on those. OTOH, the MWI has human > beings > >> >> > creating > >> >> > universes by going into a lab and doing trivial quantum > experiments. > >> >> > Of > >> >> > course they're they same (for idiots). AG > >> >> > >> >> The MWI does not propose that new universes are created specifically > >> >> by certain experiences in the lab. It proposes that this universe > >> >> branching is a fundamental natural mechanism -- that it happens for > >> >> every quantum-level event that we perceive as random from our > branch. > >> >> It's an attempt to describe nature by making sense of experimental > >> >> results, the same way as string theory and other theories. > >> > > >> > > >> > Call it what you want, it comes to the same thing; universes created > by > >> > trivial quantum experiments by Joe the Plumber. > >> > >> You are using emotionally-charged language to convince yourself that > >> it is absurd: "universes created" and "Joe the Plumber". > >> > >> The MWI only proposes that the universe is even bigger than we can > >> perceive. > > > > > > Incorrect. AG > > > >> > >> Joe the Plumber, or Dr. Joe the Prestigious Person, or an > >> amoeba do not "create universes" in some christian god-like sense. > >> They simply find themselves in a certain place, from their first > >> person perspective. > > > > > > Another universe comes into existence when Joe the Plumber performs, > say, a > > spin measurement. If he doesn't do the experiment, that universe would > NOT > > come into existence. So it is correct to say that under the MWI > decisions by > > human beings create universes. > > One hour ago I had coffee. You are now in universe U, where I had > coffee. Hadn't I had coffee this morning, you would now be in universe > U', where I didn't have coffee. I guess you could say that I created > universe U, but I don't think I will be worshiped has a god any time > soon. > > > If this isn't absurd hubris, I don't know > > what is. AG > > This "hubris" thing is an emotional reaction on your part. Science > must be detached from such matters. The only thing that matters is > weather empirical observations confirm or refute a theory. As John > Clark said, with quantum mechanics there is no hope of finding a > non-crazy explanation. The empirical observations surrounding quantum > events have refuted all "common sense" theories a long time ago. >
*You're hopelessly deluded and unable to think clearly. AG* > > >> > >> > >> > This is not only > >> > patently absurd, but DIFFERENT in how they come to be compared to > >> > NATURAL > >> > processes proposed by Eternal Inflation and String Theory. > >> > >> I have no idea what you mean here, admittedly by my own ignorance. > > > > > > See above comment. In those other theories, universes may come into > > existence, but the processes are independent of human decisions. The > former > > I deem as natural, the latter unnatural. AG > >> > >> > >> Maybe a physicist can intervene. I do know that one must be careful > >> with the naturalistic fallacy. What does "natural" mean? > > > > > > See immediately above. AG > >> > >> > >> > Sure, human intuition is often unreliable, particularly in regions > far > >> > removed from where our senses operate. But nowadays crap theories > >> > are rationalized on that very basis! > >> > >> Not at all. The "crap" (more emotional language) theories are an > >> attempt to make sense of experimental results. I do not know if the > >> MWI is correct or not, but it is an attempt to explain empirical > >> observations in the simplest way possible. > >> > >> > The world has gone mad, and brilliant > >> > physicists like Susskind have succumbed to the disease. AG > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> It is perhaps the size of the multiverse implied by MWI that makes > it > >> >> hard to believe. It is good to be skeptical of our own "common > sense" > >> >> on these topics, because human common sense has been wrong many > times > >> >> before in the history of science. Consider the size of the visible > >> >> universe, something that is uncontroversial nowadays, but that would > >> >> sound like complete lunacy not so long ago. > >> > > >> > > >> > Lunacy is thinking human beings create universes. At least Eternal > >> > Inflation > >> > and String Theory don't go to such extravagant, absurd extremes. The > >> > mathematics that seems to imply this is analogous to Maxwell's > equations > >> > implying the existence of advanced waves. AG > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Telmo. > >> >> > >> >> > -- > >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> > Groups > >> >> > "Everything List" group. > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> >> > send > >> >> > an > >> >> > email to [email protected]. > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> >> > Visit this group at > https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups > >> > "Everything List" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send > >> > an > >> > email to [email protected]. > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
