Le sam. 16 juin 2018 à 10:46, <[email protected]> a écrit : > > > On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 7:43:14 AM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> On 15 June 2018 at 23:57, <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:45:43 AM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> On 15 June 2018 at 13:27, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 10:33:53 AM UTC, telmo_menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On 15 June 2018 at 02:55, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM UTC, [email protected] >> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 11:30:27 PM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Physical Theories, Eternal Inflation, and Quantum Universe, >> >> >> >>> Yasunori >> >> >> >>> Nomura >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> We conclude that the eternally inflating multiverse and many >> worlds >> >> >> >>> in >> >> >> >>> quantum mechanics are the same. Other important implications >> >> >> >>> include: >> >> >> >>> global spacetime >> >> >> >>> can be viewed as a derived concept; the multiverse is a >> transient >> >> >> >>> phenomenon during the >> >> >> >>> world relaxing into a supersymmetric Minkowski state. We also >> >> >> >>> present >> >> >> >>> a >> >> >> >>> theory of “initial >> >> >> >>> conditions” for the multiverse. By extrapolating our framework >> to >> >> >> >>> the >> >> >> >>> extreme, we arrive at a >> >> >> >>> picture that the entire multiverse is a fluctuation in the >> >> >> >>> stationary, >> >> >> >>> fractal “mega-multiverse,” >> >> >> >>> in which an infinite sequence of multiverse productions occurs. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> "Therefore, we conclude that the multiverse is the same as (or >> a >> >> >> >>> specific >> >> >> >>> manifestation >> >> >> >>> of ) many worlds in quantum mechanics." >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> "In eternal inflation, however, one first picks a causal patch; >> >> >> >>> then >> >> >> >>> one >> >> >> >>> looks for observers in it.” Our framework does not follow this >> >> >> >>> approach. We >> >> >> >>> instead pick an observer first, and then construct the relevant >> >> >> >>> spacetime >> >> >> >>> regions associated with it. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Instead of admitting the existence of the “beginning,” we may >> >> >> >>> require >> >> >> >>> that the quantum observer principle is respected for the whole >> >> >> >>> history >> >> >> >>> of >> >> >> >>> spacetime. In this case, the beginning of our multiverse is a >> >> >> >>> fluctuation of >> >> >> >>> a larger structure, whose beginning is also a fluctuation of an >> >> >> >>> even >> >> >> >>> larger >> >> >> >>> structure, and this series goes on forever. This leads to the >> >> >> >>> picture >> >> >> >>> that >> >> >> >>> our multiverse arises as a fluctuation in a huge, stationary >> >> >> >>> “megamultiverse,” which has a fractal structure." >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> The Multiverse Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, Raphael >> Bousso >> >> >> >>> and >> >> >> >>> Leonard Susskind >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> In both the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and >> the >> >> >> >>> multiverse >> >> >> >>> of eternal inflation the world is viewed as an unbounded >> collection >> >> >> >>> of >> >> >> >>> parallel universes. >> >> >> >>> A view that has been expressed in the past by both of us is >> that >> >> >> >>> there >> >> >> >>> is >> >> >> >>> no need to >> >> >> >>> add an additional layer of parallelism to the multiverse in >> order >> >> >> >>> to >> >> >> >>> interpret quantum >> >> >> >>> mechanics. To put it succinctly, the many-worlds and the >> multiverse >> >> >> >>> are >> >> >> >>> the same >> >> >> >>> thing [1]. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Not right. Not even wrong. AG. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Eternal inflation and string theory imply universes created by >> >> >> > natural >> >> >> > processes. The jury is out on those. OTOH, the MWI has human >> beings >> >> >> > creating >> >> >> > universes by going into a lab and doing trivial quantum >> experiments. >> >> >> > Of >> >> >> > course they're they same (for idiots). AG >> >> >> >> >> >> The MWI does not propose that new universes are created >> specifically >> >> >> by certain experiences in the lab. It proposes that this universe >> >> >> branching is a fundamental natural mechanism -- that it happens for >> >> >> every quantum-level event that we perceive as random from our >> branch. >> >> >> It's an attempt to describe nature by making sense of experimental >> >> >> results, the same way as string theory and other theories. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Call it what you want, it comes to the same thing; universes created >> by >> >> > trivial quantum experiments by Joe the Plumber. >> >> >> >> You are using emotionally-charged language to convince yourself that >> >> it is absurd: "universes created" and "Joe the Plumber". >> >> >> >> The MWI only proposes that the universe is even bigger than we can >> >> perceive. >> > >> > >> > Incorrect. AG >> > >> >> >> >> Joe the Plumber, or Dr. Joe the Prestigious Person, or an >> >> amoeba do not "create universes" in some christian god-like sense. >> >> They simply find themselves in a certain place, from their first >> >> person perspective. >> > >> > >> > Another universe comes into existence when Joe the Plumber performs, >> say, a >> > spin measurement. If he doesn't do the experiment, that universe would >> NOT >> > come into existence. So it is correct to say that under the MWI >> decisions by >> > human beings create universes. >> >> One hour ago I had coffee. You are now in universe U, where I had >> coffee. Hadn't I had coffee this morning, you would now be in universe >> U', where I didn't have coffee. I guess you could say that I created >> universe U, but I don't think I will be worshiped has a god any time >> soon. >> >> > If this isn't absurd hubris, I don't know >> > what is. AG >> >> This "hubris" thing is an emotional reaction on your part. Science >> must be detached from such matters. The only thing that matters is >> weather empirical observations confirm or refute a theory. As John >> Clark said, with quantum mechanics there is no hope of finding a >> non-crazy explanation. The empirical observations surrounding quantum >> events have refuted all "common sense" theories a long time ago. >> > > *You're hopelessly deluded and unable to think clearly. AG* >
And you're childish and insulting.... You're on a discussion group, grow up. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > This is not only >> >> > patently absurd, but DIFFERENT in how they come to be compared to >> >> > NATURAL >> >> > processes proposed by Eternal Inflation and String Theory. >> >> >> >> I have no idea what you mean here, admittedly by my own ignorance. >> > >> > >> > See above comment. In those other theories, universes may come into >> > existence, but the processes are independent of human decisions. The >> former >> > I deem as natural, the latter unnatural. AG >> >> >> >> >> >> Maybe a physicist can intervene. I do know that one must be careful >> >> with the naturalistic fallacy. What does "natural" mean? >> > >> > >> > See immediately above. AG >> >> >> >> >> >> > Sure, human intuition is often unreliable, particularly in regions >> far >> >> > removed from where our senses operate. But nowadays crap theories >> >> > are rationalized on that very basis! >> >> >> >> Not at all. The "crap" (more emotional language) theories are an >> >> attempt to make sense of experimental results. I do not know if the >> >> MWI is correct or not, but it is an attempt to explain empirical >> >> observations in the simplest way possible. >> >> >> >> > The world has gone mad, and brilliant >> >> > physicists like Susskind have succumbed to the disease. AG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It is perhaps the size of the multiverse implied by MWI that makes >> it >> >> >> hard to believe. It is good to be skeptical of our own "common >> sense" >> >> >> on these topics, because human common sense has been wrong many >> times >> >> >> before in the history of science. Consider the size of the visible >> >> >> universe, something that is uncontroversial nowadays, but that >> would >> >> >> sound like complete lunacy not so long ago. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Lunacy is thinking human beings create universes. At least Eternal >> >> > Inflation >> >> > and String Theory don't go to such extravagant, absurd extremes. The >> >> > mathematics that seems to imply this is analogous to Maxwell's >> equations >> >> > implying the existence of advanced waves. AG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Telmo. >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google >> >> >> > Groups >> >> >> > "Everything List" group. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >> >> > send >> >> >> > an >> >> >> > email to [email protected]. >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> >> >> > Visit this group at >> https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> >> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups >> >> > "Everything List" group. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send >> >> > an >> >> > email to [email protected]. >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> >> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an >> > email to [email protected]. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
