On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 8:30:26 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 8:17:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 7/10/2018 6:34 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 5:08:30 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/10/2018 3:30 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> *More and more, Dirac's claim seems to be an illusion that most everyone >>> has fallen in love with. Consider the example of a vector in a plane >>> decomposed as a superposition of unit vectors in some orthogonal basis, Not >>> an exact analogy to the quantum superposition of course, but worth thinking >>> about. How many decompositions are possible? Well, rotations of the >>> original orthogonal basis give an uncountable number of DIFFERENT >>> decompositions. In fact, the set of NON orthogonal pairs define another >>> uncountable set of bases, each of which results in a DIFFERENT >>> decomposition. So in this example, it makes no sense to say the original >>> vector is in two states simultaneously in some basis, when an uncountable >>> set of other bases exist, each with a different decomposition. In the >>> quantum case, it is natural and convenient to restrict ourselves to the >>> basis in which the system is being measured. But even here, other bases >>> exist which allow other, different, decompositions of the system into >>> superpositions, sometimes countable, sometimes not, depending on the >>> system. * >>> >>> >>> All true. True of any vector space. SO WHAT? >>> >>> *So, IMO, Dirac's claim fails, not to mention the fact that his >>> "argument" in favor of simultaneity* >>> >>> >>> "simultaneity" doesn't appear in Dirac's paragraph. So your rant is >>> unclear. >>> >> >> *Why characterize my comment as a "rant"? * >> >> >> It's a rant because you repeat several times that they're infinitely many >> possible basis. Yet you make no argument nor recognize that while true it >> does nothing to contradict Dirac and is in fact a common fact about all >> vector spaces. Yet you pretend you've scored some rhetorical victory by >> pointing out an absurdity. >> > > *When I get no response, I assume I am not understood, or my point was not > well written. Moreover, I have stated several times that given the plethora > of bases, it makes no sense to single out a single basis and assert the > state of a system is simultaneously in the component states. AG * > >> >> *Is the intent to mock to support your thesis? If you look a few messages >> above, to where I underlined part of Dirac's comment reproduced in Wiki, >> you will see he essentially says the two states in the superposition he >> uses for an example, is tantamount to simultaneous. Here it is: * >> >> *It requires us to assume that between these states there exist peculiar >> relationships such that whenever the system is definitely in one state we >> can consider it as being partly in each of two or more other states.* >> >> *The "one state" he refers to is the superposition of the Up and Dn >> states. **AG* >> >> >> No. It would be the UP state. >> > > *I think you're misreading Dirac's comment, which isn't clear, unless he's > referring to a change of basis. That would mean that when we measure Up, > the system remains in the superposed Up and Dn state. AG* > >> >>> * of superposition states prior to measurement, is really just an >>> assertion. AG* >>> >>> >>> Instead of picking on a paragraph of Dirac taken out of context, why >>> don't you go read a modern version. Try Asher Peres, "Quantum Theory: >>> Concepts and Methods" pp 50, 116-117 >>> >> >> >> *Dirac isn't a good source? I am using a library computer with limited >> time until my computer returns from repair. So, if you can, please copy and >> paste your reference above. AG * >> >> >> Copy and paste doesn't work well with equations and symbols. Just go to >> >> >> http://www.fisica.net/quantica/Peres%20-%20Quantum%20Theory%20Concepts%20and%20Methods.pdf >> >> and scroll down the relevant pages. It doesn't take more than 10sec. >> >> Brent >> > > *Thanks. Time's nearly up here. Will do it tomorrow. AG * >
*Do you mean the first two pages of the chapter entitled, Composite Systems? This is page 115-116 on the numbered pages. AG * > > >> >> >>> Brent >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
