On 7/31/2018 9:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 31 Jul 2018, at 02:57, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:
On 7/30/2018 4:11 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>wrote:
>>
Many, perhaps most, physicists do exactly that because they
believe in the "Shut Up And Calculate" quantum
interpretation and are only interested in predicting how far
to the right a indicator needle on a meter moves in a
particular experiment. But for some of us that feels
unsatisfying and would like to have a deeper understanding
about what's going on at the quantum level and wonder
why there is nothing in the mathematics that says anything
about a wave collapsing.
/
>
That's not true. "The mathematics" originally included the Born
rule as part of the axiomatic structure of QM. /
A axiom is supposed to be simple and self evidently true, the Born
rule is neither; and it wasn't derived from first principles
?? You think matix mechanics was "derived from first principles"??
What "first principles"? Have you gone platonic on us?
it was picked for reasons that were were empirical and practical,
for some strange reason the damn thing works.
Well, maybe it works because the Born rule is the only consistent way
to put a probability measure on Hilbert space. Born just inuitited
the rule (and actually got it wrong and corrected it in a footnote);
but Gleason proved it in 1957. So the Born rule comes a lot closer
to being "derived from first principles" than does Schroedinger's
equation or matrix mechanics.
Yes. But we can suspect that Everett needs a form of mechanism, and
with Church thesis, along with “yes doctor” that makes mandatory to
derive matrix mechanics from first principle, like the FPI perhaps,
and certainly something like at least one universal machinery, like
elementary arithmetic or the combinators.
The catch is that Born had assume a probability interpretation; which
nobody liked at the time because they could only think of probability
as ignorance about ensembles and there were no ensembles...until Dewitt.
I like very much Dewitt, but Dewitt is the one who better understood
Everett (after mocking him if I remember well).
I was referring to the fact that it was Dewitt who invented the
mulitple-world interpretation. Everett called it "the relative state"
interpretation, and didn't consider multiple worlds.
Also, the square of the absolute value of the complex wave produces
a probability which collapses into a certainty when a observation is
made, but the mathematics can't say when that happens because it
doesn't say what a observation is.
Mathematics never includes the interpretation that allows you to
apply it.
That is wrong. Indeed Gödel’s incompleteness is already a case where
mathematics includes interpretations of mathematical theories (set of
beliefs).
Interpreting arithmetical equations as sets of beliefs is already
interpretation.
Brent
Like Everett embeds the physicists in physics, mathematical logic
embeds the mathematician in mathematics, and if mechanism is correct,
there is not much choice left in the matter.
Bruno
Brent
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