On Sunday, August 5, 2018 at 4:43:21 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 4 Aug 2018, at 23:32, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote: > > AFAIK, no one has ever observed a probability wave, from which I conclude > the wave function has only epistemic content. > > > > Then you need to explain how that epistemic content interfere in nature. > Your idea might make sense, and indeed if we believe in a collapse (as you > have to do if you believe in QM and that the superposition does not apply > to us) the idea that consciousness collapse the wave is perhaps the less > ridiculous idea. That idea has indeed be defended by von Neumann, Wigner, > and some others. But has been shown to lead to many difficulties when taken > seriously by Abner Shimony, as well guessed by Wigner itself. Obviously > that idea would be inconsistent with Mechanism. >
*Easy to show that consciousness doesn't collapse the wf. Just do repeated trials and don't look at the screen until the experiment is finished. I forget; what is mechanism? AG * > > There is no probability waves. There is only an amplitude of probability > wave, and the weirdness is that we have strong indirect evidence that the > amplitude of that wave is as physically real as the particles that we can > observe, because the particle location is determined by that wave having > interfered like wave usually do. In particular, even if send one by one, > the particles will never been found where the wave interfere destructively, > and the pattern on the screen will reflect the number of holes, and their > disposition. > > It is OK to say that probability comes from ignorance, and that the wave > describe that ignorance, the extraordinary thing is then that this > ignorance interfere independently of you. > > > > > > So I have embraced the "shut up and calculate" interpretation of the wave > function. > > > > That can be wise. Nobody can enforce the search of the truth. It is > frustrating because we can’t be sure if we progress toward it or the > contrary, and it is shocking because truth always beat fictions. > > > > I also see a connection between the True Believers of the MWI, and Trump > sycophants; they seem immune to simple facts, such as the foolishness of > thinking copies of observers can occur, or be created, willy-nilly. AG > > > That remark deserves your point and diminish your credibility. It also > suggests that you are a “True Believer” in something. > > Assuming Mechanism in cognitive science, you don’t need quantum mechanics > to understand that there are infinitely many relative computational states > corresponding to you here and now emulated by infinitely many universal > machines. Even without mechanism this is a theorem of arithmetic using only > Church thesis. With mechanism, we have to derive the “guessable wave" from > a statistics on those computations, and so we can test Mechanism if it > leads to more, or less extravaganza than Nature. It fits up to now. So with > Mechanism, we get the *appearance* of many interfering “worlds”, and this > without any worlds, from just the natural numbers and the laws of addition > and multiplication. I will show that with the combinators as it is much > shorter (but still long) than showing this with the numbers. This is known > by logicians since the 1930s (I mean that a universal Turing machine is an > arithmetical object). Computationalism, or Indexical Digital Mechanism > imposes a Many-Dreams internal interpretation of Arithmetic (or combinator > theory, or game-of-life theory, … we have to assume only one universal > machinery). > > Bruno > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
