On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 10:50 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < [email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 5/6/2019 8:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 6:04 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am not following where this point is going. Do you dispute the idea >>> that you could put a finite program in your friend's head and you wouldn't >>> not be able to tell the difference? >>> >>> >>>> I was just reacting to you statement that a person can be defined as a >>>> finitely describable TM. >>>> >>> >>> If by person you mean body, then perhaps not. But if by person you mean >>> mind, this is the assumption of the computational theory of mind. >>> >> >> That is the claim that is in dispute; Goedel and Turing find it unproven >> at best. >> > > No one is claiming computationalism is proven. But in any event, CT > implies minimally "weak AI", which is all my thought experiment requires. > > >> >> >>> And there is also the point that whatever TM you use to model a >>>> person, physics says it will be entangled with the environment and >>>> effectively random at a low level. Even Bruno agrees that the physics of >>>> the world is not TM emulable. >>>> >>> >>> Quantum physics is emulable. It's the first person viewpoints of the >>> apparent randomness are not. (but this randomness is subjective, not >>> objective). >>> >> >> That is idea stems from a confusion in your (Bruno's) definition of first >> person and third person views. In Bruno's person-duplication thought >> experiments, there is a distinction between 1p and 3p that makes sense in >> that context. But this does not carry over to QM, where there is no >> viewpoint that sees fully unitary quantum evolution. >> > > Though we cannot observe each of the states from the vantage point of any > single branch, we can infer their existence as the only viable explanation > for how quantum computers work. > > > Not at all. In fact a quantum computation only works because all the > wrong answers have a high probability of being eliminated by destructive > interference...which requires that they be computed in the same world. > So prior to the computation, all of the wrong answers existed? > > The third person view is then an element of our theory, like the inside of > blackholes (unseen yet every bit as part of the reality implied by the > theory as what we can see). > > > And yet nobody thinks there is actually a singularity at the center of > black hole. We recognize that infinities are not physical. > My point is only that we can't see inside them. > > > >> Bruno seeks to avoid this fact this by defining a first person-plural >> (1pp) point of view. But that is just another name for what is normally >> considered the third person perspective. Changing the name does not change >> the substance..... The randomness of QM is third person and objective. >> > > It's first-person shareable, like the realities shared by the scientist > and assistant in Tegmark's quantum suicide experiment, where the scientist > uses a quantum-triggered bomb vest instead of a gun. > > > So do you believe Tegmark's quantum suicide experiment implies > immortality? > I am only explaining what is meant by first person shareable. But I do believe QM implies subjective immortality. > Have you read Wilson's "Divided by Infinity"? > > Yes, but I had forgotten it. It was nice to revisit it. At the limit of quantum weirdness I think it becomes more likely to "tunnel" into a new existiance through amnesia. Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUidep-FPvf3uQGo0bhnt__%3Dhp1rZ%3DMZwSoC7vge-n7%2B6A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
