On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:04 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch <[email protected]> >>> >>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:02 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Then with mechanism, we get the many-histories from a simple fact to >>>>>>> prove: all computations are realised in all models of arithmetic. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But arithmetic does not exist independently of the human mind, and >>>>>> mechanism is manifestly a pipe dream. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> You sound certain. What is your evidence? >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>> >>>> The is no evidence for mathematical realism, >>>> >>> >>> There is plenty given in my other post to you. Even if there were none, >>> what evidence do you have against it for you to be so sure it is false? >>> (mathematical realism is the leading philosophy of mathematics, among >>> mathematicians, >>> >>> On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.The other days of the week most >>> mathematicians are nominalists! (And I had this from a professional >>> mathematician!) >>> >> >> That's an anecdote, not data. >> > > The truth of these issues is not determined by counting heads. > It does not. But your conviction that Platonism is false requires some justification or reason, given that it would overturn a predominate theory in a field. I await your reason, argument, or evidence. > > what is your alternative?) >>> >>> Nominalism. >>> >> >> Incompleteness disproves nominalism. Arithmetical truth was proven not >> only to be not human defined, but to be not human definable. >> > > What has arithmetical truth got to do with it? > The independence of arithmetical truth *is* Platonism. With it you get all the consequences of that infinite truth: - The truth that 9 is composite implies the existence of its factor 3. - The truth of the Nth state of the machine during the execution of a Kth program implies the existence of the execution trace of program K, etc. > Numbers are just names, not existing things. > Again, where is your evidence? I gave you mine in support of Platonism. If you have no evidence contrary to Platonism you should at least remain undecided/agnostic/humble on the matter. > > >> and mechanism is a failed idea because it cannot account for our >>>> experience. >>>> >>> >>> So you believe an AI that was functionally equivalent to you would be a >>> philosophical zombie? >>> >>> Not at all. That does not follow. >>> >> >> If it doesn't follow then the functionally equivalent AI would be >> conscious. Therefore mechanism. What am I missing? >> > > The fact that mechanism does not follow from the possibility of AI. > Correct, it doesn't. But it does follow from the consciousness of AI, for if AI is not conscious, then you get philosophical zombies. (as I stated above). > > >> (Mechanism is the leading theory of mind among philosophers of mind, >>> >>> Maybe for some philosophers of mind. But there are many other >>> possibilities, most of which are more convincing. >>> >>> >>> what is your alternative?) >>> >>> Why should I have an alternative? I can know that a theory does not work >>> without providing a theory that does work. >>> >>> Above you said there are other possibilities which are more convincing. >> What are they and why are they more convincing? >> > > I do not have to provide a final theory. > No one is asking you two. You said there are alternatives which are more convincing. I am just curious what you were referring to. > Anything else would be more convincing than mechanism, entailing, as it > does, arithmetical realism. > > Mechanism does not entail arithmetical realism. They are two separate assumptions. Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUgga2CAUxXHThSdbyhMwrY29t%2BT1WUp9AgnrAKjwpveZg%40mail.gmail.com.
